Selling Internationally On Amazon: How To Send Payments Internationally with Ryan Cramer
Kris Gramlich and Dustin Kane bring back one of the best in the Amazon space, Ryan Cramer from PingPong Payments. Ryan discusses selling internationally on Amazon and how to make payments to suppliers.
Ryan Cramer has worked for various companies in the ecommerce/Amazon space for 6+ years, specializing in partnerships, marketing, business development, and branding. He was introduced to the ecommerce/Amazon world in 2014 when he worked for Evergreen Enterprises under their B2C sector as their Affiliate/Partnership Manager working with deal sites, blogs and influencers. He grew a non-existent revenue channel to multiple years of 6 and 7 figure growth.
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Selling Internationally On Amazon: How To Send Payments Internationally
– Hello everyone and welcome to episode 89 of Two Amazon Sellers and a Microphone, brought to you by sellozo. Today, Kris and I have one of our favorite people back on with us, Ryan Cramer, from PingPong Payments, also podcast host of Crossover Commerce, Ryan, what’s happening, man?
– What’s up guys? Guys, we spent 15 minutes talking before we went live today. Do you realize that? I looked at the clock, and we were just chatting about nothing. Like you say favorite guests. I’m just the most talkative one.
– Come on.
– Yeah. That’s fun though. I mean, we always love chatting with you. I mean, you’re the one we try to emulate because everything you do with your podcast is so much more professional. We had to like upgrade our backgrounds. Just because of you, we got our work on,
– Got get the angle. Like you guys got the angles going on. Like everyone does like the white background, I go, no, the angles where it’s at, like that’s what’s up?
– Yeah. I know, I had to like bring in the corner of the room. I don’t know. It adds depth. I mean, we just had to, we just run a few man. That’s all we do
– Stop. We all find airway in this like weird time. Like I said, like last time I was on here, I looked at the last episode, and I had to scroll because you guys are pumping out so much content which is fantastic. Send it to our new marketing guy. I go, “Yeah, yeah, keep scrolling at the bottom, keep scrolling.”
– And then, it was like my baby face, like looking up at a camera. I was like, “What was I doing back then?” I feel so much more professional now.
– Like I can hang with the big guys so, I’m sure you guys feel the same.
– Well, yeah, we got HD cameras on like episode 80.
– It’s it. But it’s more fun just to get started. I mean, that’s what it is.
– Is it the tiny ones or is it like the actual big ones that you can?
– No it’s a little one.
– Yeah little ones.
– Okay, I like it. Yeah. Good stuff.
– They work.
– Yeah, it’s always updating your audio or voice and as long as like your family or wife is like you have a face for radio instead of camera like then you know, you’re like doing the right thing. Right? Like, I never wanna hear that comment, but hopefully it never comes, but you know sometimes that’s the case. Right? We’re just meant to be behind the camera and that’s it. Yeah, exactly. Just phone calls or that’s where a Clubhouse was meant for me maybe.
– Yeah, no doubt. All right speaking of something else. I know you’re in Indiana. Is it snowing there right now? Like it is here.
– It’s like, everyone’s said the cover up, but like your plants that you spend all this time, like planting and like did my lawn, and I’m afraid I cut it too short because everything’s gonna die. Yeah it’s gonna snow or something like that.
– Yeah. It’s snow like two inches here. I mean
– Come on April 20th. What’s going on?
– I know. Yeah, this is the time of the year. Like you think like it’s what seasons, right? It’s Midwest. Like you don’t get seasons in California or Florida. It’s just constant, hot or nice. Here it’s like, you get a taste of summers like 80 degrees, then it gets chilly again, then you’re like spring consistently for a month or two or a week or two. And then it’s like really cold and then you’re good. And then it’s blazing hot. And then you’re back into winter, like two months later.
– I hate it. Midwest, this is why no one lives here. That’s why there’s all this cornfields and everything like that. I constantly tell people I live in the middle of a cornfield. No one was near me. It is what it is.
– Yeah. I’ve got a corn fields like right over there, across the street too.
– Say a half a mile up the road. Yeah, you just like farmland. It’s being built on farmland all over.
– Exactly. All right, for everyone who’s listening right now, who did not listen months ago when we started the podcast and had you on, why don’t you give a little background everybody on Ryan Kramer, the story of Ryan Cramer. Let’s go. Let’s hear it.
– Yeah. So since we last talk, yeah, it’s been crazy. So I’ve been with all or backwards. So I’ve been with PingPong just over a year now, we’re across board payments solution that helps Amazon sellers save money when they’re moving money to different currencies. So that’s sending money to you like your VA, to your supplier manufacturer or selling in a marketplace. And you’re on your own, where you’re located like if I’m selling in Canada or UK or Germany or if they’re selling in the United States need get that money back to their bank account. We help them facilitate that transfer at a lower cost than what you would get through Amazon or any other bank or service out there. So that’s what I do currently, before this, I was working with software provider called Viral Launch which is keyword research, product discovery, finding market niches. We did a little bit of everything. And there was photography in there, you know a very much a Amazon agency. And they’re still, they’re actually based out of Indianapolis here. So they’re still doing well. I know the team over there is still growing. So just like, in 2020 we see a lot of growth in our sectors, I think you guys saw a lot of growth as well. They’re seeing growth as well, but before then, believe it or not I worked for about two and a half years I was working for the NBA and WNBA team here in Indianapolis called Pacers Sports and Entertainment. So it’s the Indiana Pacers in Indiana Fever. And worked in their ticket and events sector. So I was just working with organizations and helping them come out to the game. And so I get to do the behind the scenes stuff of, games on the floor, do behind the scenes tours, all sorts of fun stuff that U.S fans like you guys are huge sports fans. Fans don’t watch that behind the scenes stuff. Now I get to like, see the behind the lens like all the warmups, like what game operations is doing, knowing when the turnovers and flip sides of everything. It’s really cool concept of what a building that’s constantly turning over. We just hosted the NCAA tournament, the entire tournament here in Indiana. So that was, knowing what just one round entails, the entire term. I can’t imagine, like there was a month of no sleeping basically for these people. So that was really cool industry to be in. But how I got introduced to E-commerce was my job before then, was working for a manufacturer and distributor in Richmond, Virginia called Evergreen Enterprises. And they were the ones who introduced me to a direct to consumer, logistics chain because we’re manufacturing in China, fulfilling it out of our own warehouses as well as Amazon fulfillment centers. And then we’re also trying to wholesale, but also sell online and also sell direct to consumer. So there’s all these types of like different ways that we were trying to sell our own products, and get into customer’s hands, whether it’s just retailers or whether it’s just the end consumer. And I get to learn and cut my teeth on that. And started, didn’t know what I was doing but sold six figures first year through product, through a catalog of 10,000 products, and then seven figures my next year. So that’s how I really kinda got started in the world of E-commerce
– And Viral Launch back to that. They were like one of the first in the biz back then like that’s still a big software.
– Yeah. I wanna say 20. I think Casey started that, Casey Gauss who’s now with Thrasio, he’s the VP of SEO. He started that back in I wanna say 2015, I think that’s my guess of the year that they did that. It was like five and a half years or so until he left for Thrasio and then, and then, yeah that was early 2020 when that happened, but yeah there’s still, like you see the big Helium 10, which is fantastic. You know, you see a Zonker, you see Jungle Scout which just raised a hundred million dollars. There’s so much money being thrown into the beginner segment of the market, because that’s just, but it’s hard to find those people, right? You don’t know, there’s no customer segment to find out who’s potentially gonna sell on Amazon. Does that make sense? Like there’s no indicators unless you’re like wooing people to start selling on Amazon. So that’s what those kinds of companies do really well is, “Hey, if they’re going to YouTube or like shows like this and wanna learn information, you need some sort of guidance to help you get there.” And that’s what those tools do really well at. And then like where either you guys, or maybe like a Viral Launch, or excuse me, like a PingPong, will help you along the way is when you kind of become more seasoned and really start to grow your brand internationally. And that’s like where we have our bread and butter of international growth and expansion, and receiving those marketplaces. So, that’s kind of what we educate and really corner the market arm, or try to, at least.
– I wanna touch on like the substandard beginning of seller just started out, they’re doing a couple of grand a month and they start to scale, and they’re sending payments internationally, like why would they need to use a service like PingPong or what’s the benefit of using a service like PingPong? Because there’s so much confusion, and when you first start, you’re just like you’re going 90 miles an hour, just sending stuff. You don’t even know what you’re doing, you’re just doing. But,
– Why would they need something like PingPong in the back of their pocket just to have like in case of, for transfer of payments?
– Yeah. So you guys know margins are everything for any sort of entrepreneur who’s just starting out. Whether it’s, you have a couple of grand to be working with and your money gets tied up in inventory. Money’s really key to have fluidity but when you can save it whether you’re paying your supplier or manufacturer, and you put a couple of percentage points back to your bottom line, you can take now that savings and apply to our more inventory, or advertising costs, or hiring a VA or hiring more people to help you out and grow, instead of having just tied up in inventory. So when I say you can actually put it to your bottom line, the quickest and easiest way for beginner sellers is when you’re starting out. The number one thing that people are doing is paying some sort of international company or manufacturer to get products, right? I think it’s 90 to 95% of people are sourcing from another company than their own. United States is growing in that segment but most often than not, you’re gonna be going to Italy. You’re going to India, excuse me or China, of course, like China has big market share. So if I’m paying those out, you’re doing one of two ways. You’re either paying in USD, which the United States dollar. And if you’re doing that, there’s gonna this thing called a buffer. It’s what those manufacturers and suppliers are gonna be putting into their costs because when they convert the dollar over to the Yuan, which is the local Chinese currency, they don’t wanna lose out on money if it happens to dip in value. So, they’ll build in this nice little fee buffer if you will, to save on that in your invoice. Me as a seller, if I don’t know to look for it, I’m not gonna know that it exists. I just know, Hey, I’m paying a dollar. It’s really convenient for me, but I’m actually paying more than what I should be. So you can actually negotiate with your supplier saying “If I paid you out in local currency how much would that save me?” Or “what would that look like to me?” And typically it can be anywhere from like a two to 4% savings, even as high as 5%. That again, that savings get more inventory from them. Or it can, save 1000 units it could be 1,510 units or 1200 or something like that where you can actually have more inventory to sell them. And then especially with when you start to grow your enterprise, if you have a VA that you want to make sure that they are saving money, as well, instead of using like a third party payment service processor like a PayPal, for example, or just your bank, like they build in all these fees. And that’s where everyone makes money, anytime money converts, that’s where you’re gonna be, that’s where they’re gonna charge you. And because it’s more convenient, is more cost, right? So PayPal can pay you guys out for like a pizza, but there’s a 3% markup for fee, right? For $10, that’s nothing, but you’re talking $10,000, you starting to see that money starts to stack on top of itself. So that’s where the savings really comes into play for beginner sellers. Is that even though it might be small potatoes at the beginning, it’s still gonna be more money that you can put in your pocket, and apply to a PPC or again more inventories is number one key. So when you talk about actual numbers and pouring into your bottom line, we’re not taking that from you. You’re not getting it back from us. It’s just in the feature, you’re saving it so that you can operate effectively and efficiently.
– It’s really cool. I mean, I’ll tell you, and this is why it’s interesting for us to talk about just sort of international expansion anyway, because both Kris and I, as sellers, it’s something that we would like to do. It’s in our plans, we tested around and dabbled with it. But so many of the things, they seem overwhelming. Like in a lot of it is currencies. A lot of is dealing with all of that, dealing with the and logistics, logistics is a whole another topic.
– I would say, logistics is the nightmare that I know.
– Yeah. Like something like a Suez canal or something like that happen.
– Yeah. Like ,how are you supposed to predict for that kind of stuff? Like my God.
– Yeah. That is unpredictable.
– I laugh because it’s sad. Like, it’s so sad for people. Like, I know sellers who are like, had inventory on there. They’re like, “Oh yeah, that was our first customers, like shipment to like UK or Germany or something like that.” And I’m like, “Oh God, that sucks.”
– Logistics is a nightmare right now. Talk about not predicting anything. I mean, these last few years how could you have predicted any of this? How could you predict the Cargo ships going sideways and canals? I mean, it’s like, it’s crazy, but I do think that’s what makes this business, I mean a lot of businesses like this, but where you can pivot and shift and, you know, it presents opportunities a lot of times as well when these things happen. So it’s really, really interesting. But in terms of just the international expansion, just in general, for a seller, when do you think it makes sense to go international for the, for the average seller? I mean, and I guess we’re talking from the U.S perspective but most international sellers are selling in one market and that’s the U.S. When does it make sense to expand?
– Yeah. Good, great question. And you talked about how we were able to ebb and flow pretty quickly. Think of us as the speedboat and like entities like a Johnson and Johnson, or like a huge entity. Those are more like the Titanic. They can’t be as fluid and change directions as quickly as we can so positive in that column for E-commerce sellers and being fluid and can start selling and testing out things like on new social media apps or newest advertising, things like that. When you’re talking about when’s the right time to expand internationally, it’s when you feel comfortable. I never tell an individual to say, “You should expand when you have $10,000 in the bank.” You have to feel confident in the fact that you have become efficient in one market before you expand into another one because if you’re humming along, no has to replicate exactly what you’re doing in the United States. Right? Everyone thinks, I think the one major mental hurdle is that they have to take what their engine is in the United States, and take that same thing it’s planted in Canada. Or put it in Germany or any of those other marketplaces. And that’s not true. It’s just a, a lot of it is education and being aware and having a right set of partners around you, the major things would be localization. And what I mean by that is making sure that your photography or your listings are going to match the culture around where you’re selling to. And I had a really fascinating conversation with professor St. Louis university there in St. Louis. He was talking about localization and the fact that not just the product you’re selling but it’s the imagery that you’re using. It’s the colors you’re using, are all going to speak to different cultures, and audiences differently. And being aware of those kinds of environments and localization, is going to help you sell more and speak more to that audience. So I thought it was a really fascinating thing of say of E-commerce. We’re gonna look at E-business. And how we can really speak to the audience that we’re selling to, whether it’s making sure that our translations are listed appropriately, making sure that you can receive in local currency. All those kinds of things you have to be mindful of, it’s easier in the artists because we’re used to it. But that being said, you put in the work, these other markets are so green right now, and you’ll see them start to take off because people have to become used to buying online more. And they’re starting to catch up with the rest of the United States. The United States is always going to be the forefront because we adopt a lot of things here first. And we like to spend a lot of money, internationally. There’s just more marketplaces, and opportunities for other marketplace to try. Amazon’s not the number one marketplace in Europe. Probably about 10% market share I think is what I saw in Marketplace Pulse is what sellers are selling on across Europe entirely. There’s, CD discount, you have just a lot of different local marketplaces on eBay is very popular in Europe, as well as Australia. You have all these different marketplaces in each country, that just the local community are, they’re used as buying on those marketplaces. But as Amazon, you know, they’re taking the slow approach they’re saying, “Hey, long-term, we’re going to be the as people start to shop on our platform they’re going to be used to, the speed of product, getting to them, the ease of it, the cost effectiveness of it. They’re just going to be there long-term, they’re building out a logistics chain first and letting the shoppers come second.” That’s what they did in the United States. And that’s why they’re so successful. You can get your product quickly and effectively, from that regard. So my answer to you, Dustin, would be when you’re ready and you can start taking a percentage of your business and put it into those marketplaces, and making sure you do it right. Like I said, localization, I think making sure that you have your listings appropriately translated and then also making sure that you can receive those funds to save money. But there’s also programs to kind of help you along the way, right? There’s the North American Remote Fulfillment Program, there you can actually fulfill in Canada from the United States warehouse through FBA warehousing. So that’s kind of your, like, you’re dipping your toes in the international water per se. And then I think the Penn European Program will help you out with the European, almost a similar program with that just as a tied to UK, because UK is its own Island both figuratively and metaphorically. Everyone’s kind of like, “Damn you UK, like you used to be easy to work with now you’re just like a redheaded stepchild.”
– Yeah. So kind of this, do we really want to deal with you now but it’s still a bit good player. Like you said, people are afraid of like VAT and GST is just a sales tax. Again, you pay it every quarter. If you’re working with accountants they’re gonna know how to apply VAT and GST. You just have to apply for it appropriately, and you once it’s done, it’s done. It’s pretty easy to pay off through like a PingPong or through your account. They can use tools like us to take off those. It’s just a sales tax, to be honest with you. And there’s so many great resources out there that help you along the way to educate the market. I think this is kind of the funny thing, I’ve heard it a couple of times although I love big sellers in this space. They’re like, I like all these barriers in front of other sellers. Because it starts to weed out the big time players versus the ones who would wanna get on there, do it the easy thing and get out. Or not be successful and then just abandoned. Because I think recently we hit the 6 million seller Mark worldwide. And a lot of that is coming from China, but there’s all these barriers in play, new sellers I think it’s like 75% of new sellers are coming from China. That being said, there’s still all this growth worldwide but the more barriers you put in front of people, more resilient, people are going to be more successful and start to see fruits of their labor. I would say climb that wall. Other ones will just approach it. And they’re like, “Nope, I’m out. I’m just going to stick with my little corner of the market and stay there.”
– Yeah. And you mentioned the two of those programs the North American Fulfillment and the Pay in Lieu you’re obviously in the space a lot, you talked a lot of people. Are you seeing anything or hearing anything that Amazon may be doing in the future to make it easier to go international? Because right now you mentioned there is a lot of barriers. Like you gotta deal with VAT, you gotta deal with the shipments. I mean, Dustin and I both tried to do international selling and there’s just too much going on. So we just came back to the US so are you seeing any programs out or hear anything coming up that makes it easier for sellers to expand internationally?
– Yeah. So one of the things with the payment to make it more easy for people to receive funds internationally, they came up with this payment service provider network of trusted third party solutions to receive money internationally. Because again, we’re not the only ones in the space. There’s excellent programs out there like Payoneer TransferWise or . You know, everyone’s aware of those programs it’s who you feel more comfortable with and who’s gonna give you the best rate, ultimately depending on what your business needs are. So with that being said, there’s programs like that that if Amazon sees you as a trusted participant, again we’re one of those participants, that all these different check marks to say, “Hey they’re safe and they’re compliant. They we’ll make sure that you get your money safely and securely. It’s housed.” And going through all these regulations and certifications, they’re going to make sure that you are working with great other people that they may be not want to deal with. Again, Amazon has the solutions, but they would rather they wouldn’t want to deal with again for people who are transacting $10,000 or a $100,000, that’s small potatoes compared to Amazon. Like that’s not a lot of money that they want to deal with converting over, from UK to the United States. They don’t wanna have to deal with that because they don’t want it to deal with regulations compliance issues, all that kind of fun stuff. And so that’s why they go and build out these programs for people like us to participate in. What have seen Kris is I think, for your listeners might be interested, I have seen something with VAT and GST recently and I haven’t dug into it too much. Making it a lot easier to pay and kind of break it down because how it breaks down in terms of marketplace, United States is the Belle of the ball. We have about 4 billion to 5 billion views per month in terms of visitors worldwide. So that’s the bell of the ball. That’s the number one marketplace. Number two and 2A is going to be UK and Germany. And Germany is so fascinating to me because they’re very much tech centric. But they’re also a hub for other different sellers in Europe to buy from because they built out the infrastructure. So if I’m in Italy, I can buy, I can buy in Germany because we’re paying in the same currency. So it’s really easy to get a fulfilled from Germany over to Italy and so on and so forth. So those are two and 2A and then three is Japan. So I think like in terms of marketplace expansion, as more people come on or hope into Amazon, you’re gonna see more and more Amazon charter to make it more and more inviting for sellers to come and play ball. That being said, there’s marketplaces that are an opportunity to think. I think that they’ll focus on. First would be like India. They’ve invited a handful of sellers to sell in India outside of India, if you’re in India you can actually sell in that marketplace pretty easily. But if you’re outside of India, the only a select amount of sellers that can sell in there. And I think it’s the top 10% or 5% even of sellers, that they invited to try to sell there. But I think they’ll try to make it more and more enticing to be international because they want commerce to happen on their platform. And as we all know, third party sellers make up a majority of the marketplace in terms of goods, with the combination of aggregators, sellers like yourselves, just one-off people, everyone’s going to want to continue to grow this. And then you’ll start to see more and more one P sellers enter the marketplace as well. And that’s how the invitation to sell internationally will help those corporations also through Amazon to be able to grow as well. I think
– If you’re selling right now and you’re looking to go international what do you think makes more sense entering some of those markets like you’re talking about that are more established like Germany like UK and like, obviously at the U S market, or does it make sense to try to gain traction in an emerging market when we’ve got Australia which is newer, you’ve got the Netherlands which just opened up. I mean, first one in sometimes can get some good real estate,
– It gets some good tracking, and some of those other ones are becoming as competitive or close to as competitive as the US marketplace. So if you were entering a new market right now, if you wanted to go international, which direction would you go?
– I think there’s a couple of different ways that you can look at it. And it, of course it depends on the goods that you’re doing. And I think you have to really look at logistics, right? Logistics is gonna be the biggest component in terms of how expensive it is to get your goods from potentially China over to UK or through to Europe. I think that’s the biggest like costs that you can do. The number one, the marketplaces that are most fascinating to me, to be honest with you are there’s three of them. Japan’s number one. I think number two would be Singapore, to be honest. And number three would be the Middle East, I would say like North Africa, middle East UAE area. And each region is different for me and fascinating for me, Japan is because there’s so much commerce happens. Like we look at trends nowadays and we see like what what’s popular, trending. Japan is so fascinating. And the facet that if you’re selling over there and you can look less correctly there’s a lot of different barriers, right? Like PPC, you’re working with four different cadences, in campaigns mainly to speak to four different languages that are spoke of there. But if you can figure out the figuring out that the localization aspect, they have such a unique buying power, not just in Japan but you have people from China that are buying from Japan. You have people from Australia that are buying from Japan. You have cross border commerce happening from other countries that are buying in those locales because you can get it fulfilled quicker than you came from like the United States or whatnot. So it doesn’t just apply to those marketplaces, or people who lives in those countries it applies to people surrounding that area. So Japan’s uniquely fascinating because it’s located obviously near China, lots of commerce has happening clearly in China. Australia too. And then the New Zealand, lots of sharing and cross borders happening in that area. And then I say, Singapore, because of the global buying power, I think the, not TPD but the global, the GMV, the Global Market Value of an area. If you combine that general area of where Singapore is, it’s fourth highest in the world behind the United States, China and then Europe. So just buying power alone, if you can encompass now again logistics has to workout in your favor. But if Amazon can figure out that kind of generalization of area in the world, you have a really big buying power that can happen in terms of that. And then of course the middle East, I think it’s fascinating, depending on the goods you sell, because the buying power there’s fast is so vast that you have smaller population but the buying power is so large. You have, people are buying luxury goods all the time. It’s a very high end market, that if you’re selling high-end goods, that is the market to be in. And you’re gonna start to see really big dominance both there. Pakistan is also, again I think a big one that you’ll start to see open up. So all those different places and those three specific markets, that’s where I would see be the most intriguing ones to keep an eye on. The easiest ones I would say, obviously Canada, Germany, UK those are easier to get into because more people have done it. But I would say if you were really wanna kind of look and take a quote unquote risk, I would start to look in those markets and see if you can be the first to market, in your, you know, in your category, and really once you start to see the wave of people ’cause it’s all gonna eventually start to ducktail up. Right? We know that from the United States people just became really used to selling and buying on Amazon and that’s going to be the case for the world. That’s their job. And I think that’s really where there could be opportunity.
– One thing you mentioned was those aggregators in the past little conversation there. And
– There was another one that just appeared out of nowhere.
– Like again, like you blink and another one or like you hear a bell ring and that’s when another aggregator company appears, right?
– Angel gets its wings and aggregator company appears?
– That’s right. Yeah. They are everywhere. It’s fast.
– I literally saw one pop up this weekend from a seller. Like I was like, congratulations. That’s awesome. But it’s just like a group of 10, five people that are like, “We are now this company.” And I was like, awesome, fantastic. Like another one, like that’s my first reaction. But anyways, go ahead.
– Well, I was just like, if an aggregator came in and bought a bunch of brands, like the first easy thing for them to do would just be expanded internationally. Cause,
– Yeah they told me.
– I guess like guys, guess what our first job is to do? Put products international marketplaces.
– Yeah so, like that would be an easy victory.
– Yeah. Yeah.
– So yeah, I’ve had, you know, I’ve had people from Thrasio, I’ve had, Elevate Brands. I’ve had Fortunate, I’ve had Recom brands. I’ve had all these people on NF told me the same thing, international growth, Isn’t I say easy. It makes sense for people to opt into that. Because again, getting over that initial barrier is easy for them because they have the people, logistics chains, the manpower to figure it out and do it. Kris, if you’re there by yourself you’re like “I just don’t want to deal with it right now. I don’t have time, money or effort.” Awesome. Like they do. They have billions in their pockets to figure this stuff out and they have to do it quickly. The easiest way to do is get a listing built out in those marketplaces. The ones that’s easy Canada, UK, Germany. And I know that they’re doing a grand game pretty heavily in China and in Japan. Those are, you’ll start to see a lot of noise being made in China and Japan from Thrasio. I think specifically here, moving forward, in pretty quickly a future. Because again, it’s like every month or two that you see, there’s a hundred million dollars that they raised for that specific marketplace. Germany was one even Germany. There was a brand that recently just did 250 or 230, in Germany based company to do Europe and United States based company. So that this is the first wave, right? Like this is wave one, like this is big wave. Then you’ll start to see smart mode. Oh, I said like, that’s not smart money. You’ll still start to see private equity money coming behind it. And private equity money is different money than you you’re talking about like aggregator money, Hecker money. Like they have a couple of different business models, right? We’ve seen a couple of ones of buy brands and flip them. So that’s one like empire flippers. Some think that some of these other bigger brands could turn into that. I personally I’m curious to see what Thrasio turns out to be because to raise that much money and to like that quickly, there has to be another like hidden project underneath. So I don’t have any insider secrets but I have to feel like that there’s something else in the works like to raise that much money that quickly, you would have to think that there’s another option. Whether it’s like selling off brands or to like build out their portfolio and build out their own products in private label. That’s kind of what I think might happen or just kind of maybe make a big behemoth like a farm system. Right? Potentially what could happen is they start, you see a lot of acquisitions in technology companies like SAS companies, PPC and SEO are all starting to kind of like find their everyone wants to compete with the other person. So instead of building out their own EMR start to acquire. So that being said, I really don’t know, I’m gonna find out tomorrow in my podcast, believe it or not. I’ll ask the one of the heads of, assembly, Hey, what’s the feature of software? And like, what does that lead to? And how does that tie into aggregators? Because aggregator companies have to use software companies like yours, like ours to help them be more effective and efficient to get money back in the hands of their investors. So that being said, so that again, buying or flipping, I think building out their brands and just running them as is, but then throwing them into international markets. And then you have them building up their own brands and also taking the brands that they acquire and put them in retail. Those are, I think the three different ways that you can potentially see these people go down all these different rabbit holes that being said, private equity money coming into play will be a really big splash. And that would be like you get Johnson and Johnson because that brand is really top of mind clearly. Nowadays all the time, but they have all these onsite products. You talks about Procter and Gamble. That’s private equity money where you’re gonna see people build up portfolios of, Hey I want to sell an E-commerce. I’d have really good retail business. I’m gonna do really well as well on the E-commerce side of things. And I can be very specific on what I wanna target. I wanna just do electronics or I just want to do home gift, home and garden or I wanna just do clothing or whatever. I can just buy brands that way and be stronger in my offer than all these other companies, because they have to be managing their money more effectively. If that makes.
– Yeah. I just saw something today that Thrasio raised 25 plus million for Japan. And the Japan marketplace. I just saw that today. Come through.
– Well, I haven’t even read the news today but that’s not shocking. Again, they’re making they’re gonna make a big play for China and Japan. Like the smart money would bet on that. China’s marketplaces massive. And if you have an in with these kinds of not just governments, but communities you got to go where the people are, right? Like the United States at the end of the day, guys we are only 340 million people. Like I forget what the sentence I was going to say. 340 million people in the world of 7 billion, 8 billion, 9 billion. I forget what really what the global census says. But that being said, if you can be in a marketplace like in India like just crack that nut somehow some way shape or form. You just instantly become open to an audience is three or four times more than the United States. Again, buying power is different. But you’re talking about eyeballs. Eyeballs can maybe outweigh if you have a good product, can maybe outweigh in terms of buying powers in some cases. So just operating in that against South America hasn’t been really cracked yet. They have a couple of billion or two down there. Africa is another potentially opportunity as well. It depends on the market but there’s a lot of interesting facets of the world where if you can crack, I say, crack it. Like if you can be successful in those marketplaces just the eyeballs in general alone. Like if you’re building a brand, it doesn’t even matter if you’re profitable in one brand. If we bring brand awareness to you and it ties back to your company, that instantly becomes more equitable, than imaginable here in the United States like that. That’s my thought and philosophy on that.
– You got my wheels spinning here. I love conversations like this because you just you start talking and you realizing the amount of opportunity that’s out there, and it’s sometimes it can blow your mind a little bit. And on a side note, I was having a conversation with my son yesterday. We were talking about populations of cities and I had no idea. Tokyo is the biggest city on earth. I didn’t, realize that. I thought it was gonna be like something in India or some city in China. But I think Tokyo has the highest population. And it’s like 37 million. I don’t want to say the wrong there, but it’s enormous.
– Yeah. Tokyo, even Dubai or Dubai is up there too. Of course like New York city, LA, Houston are gonna be the top four in United States will be New York city, LA, Houston, then Chicago. So those four are always gonna be like our top four, but there’s other emerging cities and growing like Texas, you’ll see more. Obviously Austin is more tech people move there and like following Elon Musk. But that being said, yeah, just the world, you don’t think about like Hong Kong or Shanghai or Tokyo. You don’t think about it’s Nimble or like, you know or even London and just like countries or cities in Europe, Paris is ginormous. London’s ginormous. Like all these places just have a huge population. And it’s crazy that we don’t as a world think about like Brazil or Rio is ginormous. And that they hosted the Olympics. Again, it talks about buying power versus people. Like, of course, like you’re gonna go with one versus the other most often than not. But as people become, buying power in different ways, like we still don’t even think about this. And I had this fascinating conversation. We talk about E-commerce need business taking over the world. There’s still a very large chunk of the population, that doesn’t have a bank account, and they operate on a cash only basis. How do you as a business talk to that consumer. And that’s a big question that a lot of people are figuring in India is I think there was, Oh gosh, you see them not many grams, but like there are companies in like grocery stores that you can pay, not Wells Fargo. It’s like, I’m not gonna blank on their name again. I did this last time. But you can pay them for your purchase on Amazon and you pay them in cash and they’ll apply it to an account on Amazon. I don’t know how you buy it in the first place on Amazon. If you don’t have a, somehow you can buy something digitally, take cash to like a money gram or something like that. And they will apply it to your account because if you don’t have a credit card you can’t buy anything on Amazon, right? Like it’s impossible unless you have a debit card but people don’t have bank accounts. So how do you talk to that consumer, if you can get them to buy digitally with their cash like how do you tap into that market? So there’s all these different subsets of people. It’s easy here in the United States. I think we all have like a credit card or at least a bank account or a majority of us do. I want to say like at least 75, 80% of us do. But even so, there’s still that growth capital that can happen for people who don’t have those kinds of those assets available to them.
– I wanna transition here. You mentioned about a podcast. You kind of threw that out there. And I wanna give you some time here to talk about your podcast. So you have a podcast, Ryan, where you do almost a daily interview with somebody in the industry.
– Four to five. Yeah. Four to five times per week. Like, yeah, I’ve done. I’ve done as many as six. I’ve done as few as maybe two or three, but that was when I started out.
– Well, what got you going? Like what inspired you to do this? Like, did you decide, “Hey, I’m going to do this” all of a sudden, what made you start your own podcast and give us some background on the name of it and what it is and all that.
– Yeah. So it was an accident. It was never a planned like, it was funny, like, so in my time here like a startup businesses, everyone thinks like these big companies, like where or massive amount of people. Like in the United States, we have only four marketing people. And like, I’m just happened to be one of those for, I guess, five now. We just hired a new marketing director. But that being said, there’s just so many hats you have to wear. Right? I have to know the sales process. I have this great network of people I’ve been able to meet digitally over the course of like COVID and new lot of people, even prior to that since I’ve been in the industry awhile. So I had this opportunity come from my China team because we talked through which out and whatnot. It only happens like in the middle of the night my time, or late at night for them. But obviously on the opposite side of the world they actually asked a question. If I knew people who would be able to talk about copyright image, copyright, what was the other ones? Like basically law, like protecting yourself in terms of imageries or copyrights, trademarks it’s things like that. And I said, “I think I do, let me look through LinkedIn real quick.” And believe it or not, I got a message from Rob Stanley. Who’s a friend of you guys and on your podcast, I think. And as well, and he reached, I was like, ‘Hey do you actually know anyone that would maybe be in this area that would help me out?” And he goes, “Yeah, I can call two people right now. Like what, what do you need?” And I’d told them the outline. And you know, I said, Hey, like I don’t know if I want to do this by myself. Cause I don’t wanna look like an idiot. Do you wanna help me? And he like said, “Yeah, like I’ll hop on and we’ll record something on zoom and go from there.” And so the first episode we did was with Jeff Schick of Ruston, Schick. We were talking about this and I like prepared all this lists. Like Rob helped me out with questions. And I was like, I was not prepared. I was late. Like I was running home sweaty. I was like really bad at this timing thing. But this was something I ran home. I was like, we’re gonna record it, we’ll edit it, and then publish it. And the more and more we started talking, I was super nervous. Like, I didn’t know what to say. I didn’t know what to ask. I didn’t think I would be of much value but I wanted to be there. And the more I started talking, the more I was like learning along the way. And that being said, we got down, we edit it, it went out. We had a pretty good response from our China team. And I said, that was really fun. Astro was like,” Hey, do you wanna do this? And we can create something fun.” And he goes, “Man, I got so much other stuff to do. Like, no offense. Like I just can’t do it right now. I have my own podcast and all this other stuff.” And I go, well, do you mind if I do it? Like and just took the name myself. He goes, yeah, yeah, go for it. And so Crossover Commerce kind of was born from that by accident. I came up with the name because in PingPong or like in table tennis, I should say, the backhand or the action of your strongly forehand to backhand, if you guys are tennis, is the crossover. In that crossovers your weakest part of your game because it’s where you’re vulnerable the most. When you have to switch from one to the other. And this is a fascinating concept because the crossover would apply the weakest part of you in terms of where you are business in general. So I always wanna like learn from people to strengthen myself and never be weak in one area. I wanna be strong and all of it. But if I’m like really struggling, one area, I can reach out to people and say like, Hey help me understand this and come from my point of view. So we can really share up like that notion. So that’s where the name came from. It’s maybe more cerebral than it should be, but hey it made sense to me, it sounds like this is kind of cool and no one had the name, so we took it. So yeah, that’s where it was. And then I just started like changing out different things and started asking people. They started saying, yes, it became like one a week. And it was very inconsistent at first. But then all of a sudden, the more like tools like stream yard, which is fantastic. I use it, made it so much easier for us to get information out there. We started getting like people asking, “Hey, how do we get on the podcast?” Like what can we do? I find an idea for it. And I go, yeah, sure. And I just started building out this processes as we were going. And that’s kind of, I was born and kind of took over my life, but I love it for it. Like this is so fun to me, I would rather talk all day with people and like pick people’s brains, than sit at like maybe just fiddling away with like spreadsheets and stuff like that, so.
– Yeah it’s a learning process. Like you learn so much more. Dustin and I our biggest regret is not doing this sooner. We should have done this
– I know when people like Daily McMillan. He’s like, yeah, I did 600. He’s done like way more than this by now. But like he did 600 episodes and I go, that’s so awesome. That would take so long. And then I like got to like I’m approaching 100 and I go, wait a minute. I can maybe do this in two years. Or like, if I really pushed myself, I can do less. And then I started thinking like, that’s really stupid, Ryan. Like, don’t do that. And like, I get it where people get either right in podcasting, you can either get burnt out or just like, by doing the same, maybe talks all the time. But I don’t think that’s the case in our industry, or you just like, you lose momentum and you stop. And I think that’s the number one thing you always see statistics of. If you don’t do it consistently you’re just gonna not do it anymore. And you’re just gonna lose an audience or momentum or whatever that may be. So just like selling or just figuring out or any sort of entrepreneur journey just be consistent and develop a habit. And now my wife knows like, always ask me when I wake up. “When’s your podcast today?” I go, it’s weird when I was like, Oh no it’s an off day for me. She’s like, Okay so how many, yeah. How many podcasts are you appearing on? Then I go, Oh, three, like either are you talking about me only? But she’s the one that keeps me grounded. Like I get, like in this, you can get really big. And you’re like, Oh, I know what you’re going to talk about. Or I always try to keep myself as grounded as possible. She does a good job. I’m like, Oh, well guess what I learned. She goes, did you learn that? Or are you just repeating what other people said? And I go “All right. I guess I’m going to do like research articles and I’ll write a paper and then I’ll present it to you.” and pushing myself. Right? Like I don’t want to be just the Regurgitator. I wanna be like, Oh, that’s really fascinating. I wonder if, and then like go down the rabbit hole and really push myself too. So that’s a hard thing. I think you guys can do to maybe hear it instead of applying your own knowledge. Like maybe that’s my question for you that I’m going to put my interview hat on. What’s the hardest thing of repeating something you might’ve heard and like maybe sharing as your own versus like trying to bring up a really good point someone else made and making sure that you give credit where credit’s due? Does that make sense?
– Yeah It’s hard to,
– Oh yeah.
– It’s hard to make it exactly the correct way that they presented it. Like, I can regurgitate something that I heard and if I don’t present it the right way, it may come off differently. But it’s hard to like when I hear something, I don’t have anything to write it down right now. I’m just kind of listening to it. So I always go back and re listen to our podcasts because I find a lot of times I hear things that I remember things I don’t remember talking about or something like that. So I just try to write it down. But that’s the hard part is sharing the information that we heard on another podcast but making sure we say it the right way. And then I always forget to give credit where credit’s due. It was like, I always say it’s as hard to do that.
– It’s like a free flow of information. Right?
– Well it’s fun. Like I know I love doing this live. It’s not scripted. We don’t script any, some scripts. We get some questions and we just get on these questions. But other than that, we’re just spit balling. We’re just talking Amazon, talking shop. So that’s another thing I really liked too.
– Called active listening, and this is really good for like when we’re back in person and you’re like, you’re not looking at something you’re like, it’s almost like clubhouse, right? Like you can’t be out, you can’t like edit your video in order to make yourself look better. And I get it. People do do that. But I think the people who can just you can see the wheels turning behind people’s minds like this, instead of like just going through a boring webinar, like webinars have to change in the future. Like how we disseminate information has to change whether it’s interactive or something along those lines, because we all don’t wanna go back to college and sit through a webinar and just like watch an hour long presentation on PowerPoint. Like that’s so boring to me and I hate doing that, but sometimes it’s necessary, but how do we continue to share information without it being boring? And that’s where I wanna come from. I know that’s what you guys do as well.
– Absolutely. I mean, if, if I’m learning something right now then the people who are listening are learning something and it has been a really fun journey. And I’m telling you, you have been for sure an inspiration for Kris and I. We’ve tried to like I said, at the beginning, we’ve tried to up our game just to stay with you for sure. But also Kris, you mentioned it. We wish we would’ve done this a long time ago for years. And I’m a big fan of Gary Vaynerchuk. You guys meet, he’s always talking about just put content out, put content out, content going out is better than the quality almost sometimes, just talk and put it out there. I was telling Kris, we should start a podcast. It took us a while from the conception to actually do it. And then we got better. And now it’s just like, it’s comfortable. It’s fun. It’s fun and we’ve met really cool people and learned a lot.
– And this is the thing you get the bug and then you do it. And then people ask you like, Oh yeah like I saw you have a podcast. So that’s really cool. And again, we know like not everyone’s gonna listen to every episode.
– Maybe like one in every three, which we owe some conversion. But then now I’m always asking my friends like, well, yeah it would be, you know it’d be a really cool idea for a podcast. Right? And I started thinking myself, I was like it’d be cool to do a second one. Just a little bit different. But like having for me having a co-host would be kind of clutch. Like to be honest with you. Like no one wants to hear me talk all the time. But it is what it is. But having doing like, yeah, more of like a round table discussion or something along those lines, like once a week would be kind of cool. So I always started that out there with people like, man what’s another one I can do because I mean, we do this for our companies, but we also do it to like learn as well. So it’s,
– It’s kind of among those balancing acts of what else can we do, like and be kind of cool and creative but….
– We’ll see what the future holds.
– Exactly. And we’ll be having you on our podcast many times in the future. ‘Cause there’s always fun to have you. Before we jump off here, you want to let everyone know how they can get in touch with you, and PingPong payments if they’re interested.
– Awesome. Yeah, I would do. So you guys can of course follow me on social media. The easiest way to get in touch with you’d be like message me directly. I don’t have any VA’s. So you’re talking to the one and only Ryan Kramer. Like Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn anything like that, but you can email me directly. It’s Ryan.kramer and that CRA and we are @pingpongx.us. Just mention, Two Amazon Sellers and a Microphone that you heard me here or just sellozo. And then I can give the guys here credit as well just to say like, “Hey heard your stuff would be curious to hear more thoughts on said topic.” You know, I’m full of a lot of not hot air. I have a lot of ideas and a lot of cool ones I think in the future that I really want to apply. I don’t know about you guys, but I’m actually gonna start trying to write blog articles of the content, and try to try to really apply more knowledge in that regards. Because I think there’s just like you said, content is King. I think that it’s just pushing me to like even do more research and do more discovery if you will of what’s out there in the space that can help people grow, and then apply it to my own business ventures in the future as well.
– There you go again, setting the bar high.
– No, no, I haven’t done it yet, but it’s like, Hey like I think there’s a lot of cool tools out there, right? That can help you. Like along the way, like implying embedding video and audio and then written word. It’s all about like how people can, even podcasting, like it’s a whole nother audience like just listening versus watching. So like we all have to be not everywhere at once, but I wanna do a good job in everything I do. So again, good stuff from you guys as always like, keep I saw the title cards are changing too. So I know who’s doing that if that’s your new assistant or whatnot, but they’re doing a great job. You guys are looking good.
– Slowly we’re getting there.
– We’re trying to step up.
– We’re just trying to keep up with you.
– Improve get something out there. And now it’s like, well we need title cards and we need a nice little bag.
– Intro and outro. And then yeah. Then you have to break it down. Yeah exactly.
– It’s a whole biz, it just keeps getting bigger and better hopefully. But I encourage everybody who’s listening. You’ve got to follow Ryan. You got to listen to his podcast, Crossover Commerce. He streams it live like we do so you can find them on LinkedIn. You’ll get, you know, make sure you connect with him and follow the page so that you can get notified when he goes live all the time. He’s got great guests on. You’re a great interviewer. You get into some really good questions and keep bring out a lot of value. So I encourage everyone. You got to go out there and do that. Also, if you’re listening right now, you’re selling on Amazon and you need help with your advertising. Go to sellozo.com. You can book a demo with Kris or myself. We’d love to walk you through our platform show you how sellozo can help automate and optimize your advertising. Take that off your plate. No one wants to be dealing with spreadsheets all day with their advertising. We can handle that for you. So book a demo with us. We’d love to talk with you about it. We’ll talk anything Amazon. We love these 30 minute conversations we have. So it doesn’t have to be about advertising. We’ll talk about whatever you want. So make sure you go ahead and do that. Also make sure you subscribe to the podcast, leave us a review. We need some more ratings and reviews.
– Yeah we’ve got one review and it just says their name.
– Over there.
– Yeah. That’s right. Leave more subscribe and leave us a review. And you can also follow us on sellozo’s YouTube channel, on sellozo’s Facebook page. Like it turn on notifications, leave comments when we’re talking live. Just whatever you needed to do to see this content that we’re trying to put out there and that Ryan’s putting out there with Crossover Commerce. Ryan, thanks for joining us. And we’ll be back at this again tomorrow.
– Yeah I guess.
– And we’ll be back again tomorrow. Have a great day everybody.
– Have a good one.