Kris Gramlich and Dustin Kane are joined by million-dollar seller Paul Baron from The Chat Agency to discuss how to sell more products on Amazon using chatbots.
Paul is just one of the numerous Amazon sellers who are using chatbots with their Amazon business to engage customers and launch new products.
How do you sell more products on Amazon using chatbots?
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Paul Baron – The Chat Agency – https://www.thechatagency.com
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Sell More Products On Amazon And Engage Your Customers Using Chatbots
– Hello everyone and welcome to episode 71 of two Amazon sellers and a microphone brought to you by Sellozo. Today Kris and I are joined by Paul Baron from the Chat agency. Paul, how are you doing?
– I am great, like I said, kind of prior to this I’m just coming off the tail. End of some tummy troubles, the stomach flu. I don’t know what it was, but I’m glad today isn’t yesterday ’cause yesterday I was not feeling super great.
– That’s the worst.
– not fun.
– That is the worst feeling, but I’m glad you are feeling better.
– Same, other than that, I’m great, yeah.
– Well, we were really glad to talk to you. I know you’re gonna bring a lot of good tips in Texas to everyone who’s listening in. ‘Cause this is something we haven’t talked about. Just the basically the use of chatbots and how you can just the different way to reach your customers and get them engaged. And so we’re really excited to just dive in and talk all about this. I know Kris, he’s been using ManyChat for awhile. He’s got some strategies he uses. I haven’t yet. It’s something that I’m totally should be doing. So I’m really excited to hear everything that you have to say about this, but before we jump in Paul just let everyone know a little bit about you. How did you, how do you get started in the Amazon space to begin with?
– Yep, so I have a background in digital marketing prior to even doing anything on Amazon and starting in 2008 I was working for myself mostly well for myself mostly, actually for myself. I had always tried to start businesses when I was younger. I never knew what I was doing. I still feel like I don’t to some degree, it’s just, I’ve learned a lot from all of the prior mistakes, so I make less of those. I just make new mistakes, and then I learned from those and then I hopefully don’t make those again in future. But, so I started working at a digital marketing agency in 2010. It was the same year that I actually got married. So it makes things, remembering things easy ’cause I’m terrible with dates and times. So you think, okay, when did I get married? 2010. That’s when I started, I think two years later I was let go from that agency and I was fired. At the time, I was employee number 12 and I had set up all these key partnerships with this agency. We went from getting about five leads a week to about 25 a day within my first three months there. And that’s really kind of my natural, what I’m really good at naturally is just networking and connecting with people and figuring out who does what and why they do it. And you know, maybe we can’t do business together but I always keep people in my back pocket as it were because like, if I think, well for example, so we had connected more on Clubhouse. That was how we had initially sort of connected. And then off Clubhouse, I’m actually in Rich Goldstein’s room right now. He asked me to be in but I told him I was like, I can be it, but I can’t talk. It’s weird because part of the algorithm is like the more people you have with good followings, the bigger it gets your room out there. But like one of the people in his room Monica connected her with a friend of mine. She’s a producer, Monica is a producer. One of my friends is a writer. And I was like, Hey, maybe you guys can work together. So that’s always been my background starting in 2015. So let’s fast forward. I was let go from this agency in 2012, I was really earning a ton of money there. I was just hating my life and just not, I just wasn’t accomplishing my life’s purpose. Really kind of feel like dying inside every time I went to work and the next two years, between 2012 to ’14 was really rough for me because I was trying to figure out exactly who I was as a person. When I was younger, I actually wanted to be a pastor. I went to school with the Bible college and was studying to plant churches and help people in in different countries learn how to feed themselves really. And so like businesses, I had always been a part of it. Like I said I was always starting these businesses when I was younger. I didn’t know I would call that businesses but they really were just hobbies. And I made some money. In 2014, 2013, 2014, I had just started a web development marketing agency. 2015 comes around and I’m about a year into this agency and I see some ads, actually my friend sends me about the amazing selling machine course which is one of like the very first courses that there ever were about learning how to sell on Amazon. And in earlier in the year in 2014, we had started taking our son swimming and started realizing there’s all as new parents, there’s all these things that you don’t know, like if they have a swim diaper and all this stuff. And so that was stuck in our head, started research our product research in 2015 and found out that’s how we actually landed on our brand Bill and Bill Littles, which we quickly become in the fibrous will coming on six years now that we’ve been in business, we’ve made a name for ourselves as the best brand in reasonable swim diapers in the industry which is huge. But leading up to 2021, my background is always in, like if I can’t learn how to do it, I’m gonna hire somebody, if I can’t hire someone, I learn how to do it myself. And I’m always looking at all these new technologies and new things that are on the market. So when our second year in business 2016 chatbots had just come out or it wasn’t chatbots, it was actually, the API was opened up for Messenger chat. So I started playing around with it a little bit in 2016. And then in 2017, I had this wild idea in like the middle of the night. And I figured I’m gonna try doing this contest to see if we can get some signups. Totally broke all the rules in Facebook, didn’t realize what I was doing but I got 1500 signups in three days. And we spent like $150 in ads. And I was giving away $275 gift card. So $150 in gift cards, $150 in ad spend. So $300 total, we got 1500 sign-ups and it blew my mind. And now all the registrant’s, all the opt-ins were not good because it was just a straight giveaway and Amazon gift card. But what it did for me was it just showed me at the time that this is like crazy powerful and that was when I started diving headfirst either chatbots into learning how to leverage it for our business, because at the time going prior to this, I was really skeptical ’cause I was like, it seems kind of spammy like who would wanna connect with a business on Messenger? Like that’s kind of annoying, right? Like you don’t wanna get those messages all the time but now it was twice, it was so five years later four years later, four years later. So he can’t do math because of dates. I can do math, dates and times as they relate to functions of reality, were not gonna happen, but
– They all go together.
– Yeah so anyways, so like I’ve, I started Messenger Bot University in 2018 which had transitioned into Chat Marketing University. That’s my fun little Mike thingy. For those of you that are listening, I have a little, it’s called a mic flag that has CMU my logo for Chat Marketing University rebranded to that in 2019. And in 2020 due to response from basically all of my students in any time I would do a speaking engagement or podcast or whatever, the number one request would always be for people to hire me directly. And my standard response was always you can’t because I’m too busy and I don’t wanna start an agency and so take my course, but I quickly started seeing that the majority of the people going through my course started to become it switched from sellers to agencies. And so I just saw that it was just this big hole in the market. Plus a lot of my students still kept asking to hire me and they didn’t wanna go to somebody else. So I was like, all right, fine, I’ll do it. And that’s how the chat agency started. But I didn’t really tell you much about selling on Amazon other than we did it. It’s amazing. We built a really solid brand. You can Google us feel free to creep our Shopify. If you creep our Amazon page at our product to your cart because I don’t want our conversions to go down.
– I totally buy it. If you know somebody, please buy it actually because I’ve becoming more public about what we sell. and I’ve noticed that our conversion rate is going a little bit, a little going down a little bit. Anytime I do a big podcast or something I see an influx of traffic.
– That’s so interesting. That’s the first you normally hear pillows out. I don’t wanna tell, you know, everyone’s always so cagey about what they sell, because they’re worried about people copying them and all kinds of stuff. And that’s the first time I’ve heard about the conversion rate concern, because it’s true. If less people go look you up and then it’s gonna metal mess up the conversion rates. That’s it.
– Well, I mean, yeah. That’s, if you’re a dedicated, it would take you five or 10 minutes to really figure it out if I didn’t tell you. So I figured it doesn’t really matter.
– Yeah, yeah. Yeah let’s look back up to when you first started. So you started selling, you’re selling an Amazon, you heard about ManyChat and there’s a chatbox tools out there. How were you using those in your business?
– When we started, it was just all experimentation, obviously. I mean, it’s 2017. I was using a tool. It was called Message Hero. And I switched over to ManyChat within a year because it was just way better to be honest. Jeremy is a friend of mine. He’s co-founder of Message Hero. I mean, no offense, Jeremy, but ManyChats better. So I switched to ManyChat and when we started, it was just opt-ins. I was just trying to build a list. And then I started thinking, okay, well, I mean I can use this for review generation. That was where my immediate thought went because it was, I think it was 2016 that the first review apocalypse happened. When prior to this you could give away products for free, right? You could say, just disclose that you got it for free and it’s an honest, unbiased review, but here’s the thing. Like, everybody knows that that’s not really honest or unbiased if you get something for free because you got it for free. So that went the way of the Dodo. And I was thinking through how can we within terms of service can their customers add value and kind of re-engage them while getting reviews. And so I put together a system called the reviews and autopilot system, which is now kind of ubiquitous to getting reviews in the Amazon space. In fact seller tools just released a whole template based on this. It didn’t give me credit, which is fine because I don’t think that most people realize that I was the one who pioneered it. But it’s basically the concept of let’s say that you sell, say that you sell this, it’s expo whiteboard care. I can’t remember how much it was but maybe let’s say this is 50 bucks, okay? And then you have a dry erase cleaner, let’s say this is like costs you 10 cents. And maybe this costs you 10 bucks. The concept is that these two products go hand in hand, right? So if I was selling expo whiteboard care and it was a high ticket item, or higher priced, what I would do is I would re target all the purchasers of the expo whiteboard care with an ad on Facebook saying get your free whiteboard cleaner. And basically the process would be that. So I’m exporting my users from Amazon creating a custom match audience on Facebook, running an ad saying, you know get your free whiteboard cleaner or maybe markers or something. I don’t know maybe these are cheaper. I don’t know, I don’t sell these. I don’t know what the costs on them are but the concept is that it’s a low cost high value loss-leader, right? So this is a good value for people. You know, a lot of times people like I actually bought two, I didn’t, I completely forgot that I had this one, but I bought another one. And so it’s one of those things that like people would use, right? If they have a whiteboard or a blackboard or whatever it is if they’re cleaning it, then they’re in market for that. So that’s essentially the concept is you target people that have purchased one product with an offer for a free something. And the key is you give it away to everybody, right? You don’t ask for review until the very end after they’ve received this product. And you’re not asking for a review on this obviously, right? It’s a free product that you’re shipping. You’re asking for feedback. You’re asking for what their experience has been with this. And that’s the key you ask for experience and feedback you don’t say review. When they gave you their experience or the feedback you say, that’s fantastic. You tell your story, your brand. And then you ask if they’d be willing to leave that as a review on Amazon. And when we first pioneered that in 2017, we were getting 80% review rate out of the people that were going through the funnel. We were getting like 200 people go through it. So that would be 160 people would leave a review which is huge. And that was then I taught that with amazing again. So ASM amazing.com. We did that as a paid webinar, premium webinar for them. And we had a thousand people take it, which is insane. It was huge. And we were having 100 people per week buy the replay until Amazon asked us to stop because of the copywriter didn’t change something that we asked them to. On the landing page, we said, we were saying get verified reviews on autopilot. That was what we wanted it to say. The copywriter had initially said get positive verified reviews on autopilot. And that was the key. You are not allowed to solicit just positive reviews which we don’t. So Amazon listens to me, there they go into my rooms. I’m not in fact I’d love to talk to Amazon corporate and see how we could work together better to get these systems solved. Because if they follow me, they would know like anybody does that I am as above board as I can possibly be. I don’t let people speak in my Clubhouse rooms that give shady advice. I’ve had people come in a couple of times at once. One time is enough. If somebody comes on my stage and they give people that advice I don’t let them speak again because I don’t. I understand that that when people are listening, they may not understand, they may not be in the position that I am with six years of experience, they may be, you know three months in and they hear some bullshit advice that’s just straight. Sorry, you don’t anyway.
– All is fine.
– They hear bad advice that could potentially like really get them in trouble both with losing their account potentially legally because it’s against the law to solicit reviews. It’s actually federally against the law. I know for sure in California, I’m not sure on the, I’m pretty sure it is federally as well but I know for sure, the bare minimum in California a couple of other states, they pass laws. So you’re not allowed to do that. So anyway, that was how we started. Then we started looking at, okay how can we launch products using these tools? How can we do all these things? And really, it always comes down to the same thing in my head, which is audience building. Because in my head, I’m building a brand and not just in my head, I am building a brand, we’ve built a brand. We’ve had pottery barn kids buyer email us asking to carry our products in their store. We didn’t have to reach out to them. We had Michael Phelps agent reach out to us asking to partner with us. We didn’t reach out. And this tells me, okay, we’re making a buzz, we’re making a splash in the swim diaper industry as it were. And that shows me that the efforts that I’ve done that I’m doing are paying off which is another reason why I don’t necessarily care to show people what we do, because sweetheart you can try to compete with us but I will guarantee you that I will crush you, you will wish that you had never tried to compete with me because I will not let you. In a friendly way. And then I’ll show you how I did it. And then I’ll say this is what you do in a different product line. Just don’t compete with me.
– That’s awesome. We had another guy on MENA. I’m sure you’ve known. Yeah, yeah. He’s all energy, all energy. He’s very open. He’s open about what he says. And he’s like, come on board. You wanna come to challenge me? I challenge you to come on and see it. So I love it.
– It’s funny because his brand is called MMA. And so he’s all about fighting anyway.
– Yeah, he is a fighter is exactly right.
– Yeah, he’s a piece. That’s a good story. That’s good stuff. So that one of the things that you’ve done and I’m guilty of doing like the post on Facebook and say tag a friend and let’s get all these people in here and let’s build this up and then, I would broadcast them all at one time, without even like, just shooting a message. So it’s changed a lot now where I’ve tried to get back in there. I’m trying to learn it again. And it’s just so much different. You have to have tags for different content and you can’t blast like you did like you used to in years ago. So it’s come to the point where if I ever wanna do something I have to have somebody else to figure it out because I’m gonna get my account, spin it. If I do it the same way I used to do, it’s just totally different.
– Yeah, it’s insane, that it’s funny ’cause that was the first course that I decided to start selling to, which it’s extremely technical and it changes literally sometimes day to day. I mean, when I was regular, I haven’t recorded content regularly for it in a while and I need to, but I mean I’d go through a whole week of recording content and then it’d be like two things that I need to rerecord within a week because something changed in the interim. And it’s just insane. Like the tagging stuff, the broadcasting things. If you guys aren’t in the ManyChat world, don’t worry about all that for now. Just know that it’s a great tool and that there’s good people that you can learn from and you could still use it. It’s just not as pliable as it used to be.
– Yeah, it used to be very easy to simple things. And now there’s different flows you can build, you can get all types of reactions, a QR codes on answer. What would you give like for a seller out there, basic. basic flow, basic concept. I’m a new, I got a new product. What would I do? How can I use ManyChat to my advantage on a basic level?
– So basic level is you need to look at all it low-hanging fruit in general, again. So I think through strategy, I think strategy then I think tactics, strategy is what you wanna go, tactic is how you’re gonna get there. And I think that in the Amazon space, there’s a lot of tactics and like how to rank, like, how do you rank, how do you get reviews. Now that’s good to know how, but you need to know why, why do you wanna rank, what are you, why, what’s the goal, right? So I want to rank because X, Y, and Z obviously I wanna make money, right? But that’s what I think through in terms of strategy and tactics. So strategically you should be building a brand, okay? That is where Amazon is headed. In 2021, they started to shift in 2019. And we’re seeing it really was kind of delayed a little bit because of COVID they had infrastructure issues but we’re really seeing this big push with Amazon pushing to get brands micro brands, more exposure, because they realized that micro brands are bringing their audience. They’re also getting the Amazon audience, but it’s a better partnership for Amazon whereas just the let’s just find okay, I’m gonna sell my whiteboard cleaner with a coffee mug, with a fork and then maybe some playing cards or something, right? Like that, none of those things are related that you can’t tie a brand story other than you just wanna make money. And here’s the thing. If that’s what you’re doing, that’s a great way to cashflow but if you’re trying to connect with people and you’re trying to build a brand that’s worth anything that you can sell, sweetheart that’s not how you do it. Like you’re, nobody’s gonna buy that. There’s, you’re just, you’re running a race. It’s gonna be a hamster treadmill that you’re gonna get tired and eventually you’ll fall off. And really it’s a race to the bottom because the only thing that you have to compete you don’t have a brand is price. What you have to compete on when you have a brand is other factors such as what’s your unique selling proposition for so expo, for example, let’s say that maybe I wanted to create a more environmentally friendly version of this, that wouldn’t harm. I don’t know if this is environmentally friendly. I’m just saying it smells like it’s not but that’s my point, right? So before I go into tactics, I wanna, I always think strategy. So strategically your inserts or your packaging, your everything about your brand should drive people to want to connect with you, to engage with you further outside of whatever sales channel they bought from you on. It doesn’t matter if it’s Amazon, your website, your retail store, you should be leveraging your packaging and your inserts to build your audience because your audience is where the money’s at. According to the Harvard School of Business, it is five times more expensive to acquire a customer than to sell to the same customer again. Now Amazon sellers generally don’t see a lot of that because the Amazons like customers are Amazon customers. Amazon is acquiring those customers. Amazon’s paying the money, but that’s why Amazon shifting because they’re seeing that brands that pay to build their own brands, they’re bringing new customers to Amazon. They’re adding stickiness. So with an insert, a very simple flow that you could do would be just register your product for a warranty. Now, again, my whiteboard cleaner here, I wouldn’t register this for a warranty. Like it came cracked at the top anyway but it still works, when it’s gone, it’s gone. Now I might register this for a free eraser, or I might register it for a whole bunch of markers or something or I might register it, or I might do this. Like, this would actually be a great flow. Get on subscribe and save, and then get a free gift. Like that would be a great flow for this. So add it to subscribe and save and then you get a free gift. So that’s always, what I think is is how can I accomplish more than one goal? The first goal is always building an audience. The second goal could be getting a review. It could be upselling more products. It could be cross-selling products. It could be driving people into our nano influencer into our nano influencer tribes. But it’s very simple flow would be just that you have a QR code or a ref URL. And a ref URL is just a URL that redirects to Messenger. You set these up inside ManyChat and that basically would then open up and it would walk you through really simple process. And it’s like a five-step process, which is what’s your name, what’s your email, what’s your phone number, what’s your order ID, what’s your address? Set those five things. And that those five things, and you don’t even need it. You can have more, you can have less but it’s really simple. And then once they’ve registered their purchase, you can offer them, you know, like ask them, hey, what’s been your experience with the product. That’s a review funnel. Or you could ask them, hey, did you that we have a matching? So in our case, swim diapers, we have a matching top for the bottom that you purchased. We can get that for you for 50% off if you’d like that. Like that would be another great upsell opportunity. Or you could do the subscribe and save thing. But the point is that’s a simple flow that you can multipurpose and you can change the end just based on what you’re needing whatever levers you’re needing to pull. And so that’s why I wanna talk strategy versus tactics because tactics are very, I wanna do this, this, this, and this, strategy is like the overarching why, of why you’re doing it.
– That’s fascinating. And I really liked that approach as well. And so for a simple flow like that, I mean, what are you seeing is the percentage of people who actually opt in to that,
– It depends on the lead magnet. So ours, I know that we’ve had a couple thousand people go through and you know, like in our busy months we sell, like, I think it was something like, I need to look again. It was like 10 or 15,000 units in June. So it’s not a massive percentage but we’re doing a warranty registration on an eight on a $17 purchase. So it’s not that big of an offer, right? And so this is something that it’s funny ’cause if I was consulting myself, I’d be like you got to test a different offer, bro. Like, that’s not very, like you think that people are really gonna care about losing $17. And then I would answer myself, no, you’re right. They don’t, I would do something different. So it all depends on the offer. And that’s the great thing about referral URLs or QR codes is that you can change the way they’re like where they go most of the time. So you can have a QR code that goes, say you want it to go to a landing page. You can switch the landing page to be whatever you want. And you can even have it split test to be this for like three ways and then you see which offer works the best, but it starts when you’re talking about like problem solving. Like, is it the insert? Is it like, what, where is it? Where’s the drop-off do they not see it in the answer? Do they go into the flow? And they just don’t complete it or do they just, do they see it? But they just don’t care about registering but it is a very, it’s like, here’s my thing. I like that that flow will take you. If you’re brand new learning from scratch it might take you 20 hours to learn and build maybe, maybe, maybe five or 10, if you hired us to do it we get it done in like 45 minutes ’cause we built it. You know, we have like 10,000 hours of building flows, right? So get it done really quickly, but it’s more leads and you’re getting, if you’re not doing it, it’s kind of super low hanging fruit. I mean, you can just put a sticker let’s say that you’ve got all your stuff done, you just put a sticker like text this code to this number, or, you know scan here for a free item or something. I mean, Yeti does that. They’re like register your purchase for some free stuff. Well, the free stuff send you a bunch of stupid stickers that I don’t really care about but I did it because I wanted to see what the free things were.
– Something that I got in the mail the other day was it was a postcard. And it came from a product that I purchased months ago. And it wasn’t for that particular product, it was for the brand giving like, hey, this is a free offer. Or coming out with samples get free samples and just pay shipping it. But it was a postcard and it caught me off guard. ’cause I never get me like he was gonna send a postcard. It’s kind of strange first of all. But then on the postcard was a QR code and me, you know, sellers are like let me go down this rabbit hole. Let me see what this does. Very interesting. It took me to their store on Shopify where I then had to make a purchase, I pay for shipping and now I’ve made a purchase on their website. I’m sure there’s some little gray hat black hat things that are going on, but that’s what’s the thoughts there? Is that something that can do or should we kind of stay away from that?
– Yeah, so actually that’s why I designed the reviews on autopilot to do that because my buddy was actually doing just that, that strategy and he was using it for reviews and he knew that it was against terms. It is against terms of service to mail people, anything. And so he knew that, and I was like I’m not gonna do this because I’m not gonna do it. And I also knew that I wanted to teach this and I wanted to show other people how to do it. So the strategy that I would do is that exact thing instead of mailing people, you target them on Facebook, do the exact same thing. And then it’s to our compliant. Now, Amazon, I’ve never read anything on Amazon site that says that we can’t target people with Facebook ads. There are some people that say that you can’t, I’d like to have those people show me in terms of service where it says that we can’t. In my head we’re adding value because it’s an ad. They have to click the ad to interact with us. There’s a step there. If the ad is garbage, if the offer’s bad, then they won’t contact us. The other thing that they could do, Kris is let’s see like this, for example, I save inserts all the time, so.
– Me too.
– Yeah, so this is a this is a really good insert for just explaining more about the product line that they have, where this insert really fails though is they have no call to action. They have no call to action to sign up for anything. It’s just, here’s our other products. So that would be appropriate if so, for example, we’re redesigning our packaging finally, it’s been forever. We have, we’ve never even actually had packer so six years finally, we’ve been just been shipping and polybag so finally we’re having packaging and we have the calls to action to connect with us in the pack, like on the packaging , designed to be ripped open so that Amazon knows that it’s open, so they’re not gonna ship out used products that was an issue with us. It’s a fitting in the small standard size which Amazon kept mismatching us as large standard size. It’s costing us less and it’s bettering our brand exposure. And then we can add in stuff like this, where we could have an insert that just talks about our other product line. Then the call to action. The calls to action would be, you know register your purchase for a discount or, you know register your purchase for this freebie or something along those lines. But that’s on the package, right? So that would be, when I’m thinking through talking with new sellers or any sellers in general, I always start at the basics. Like, what are you doing now? What’s working, what’s not working. What have you tried? What haven’t you tried? Or what have you tried now? What problem are you trying to solve? Have you stopped trying to solve that problem? Why have you stopped trying to solve that problem? Those sorts of things. And specifically with inserts, I think in general branding inserts are a part of branding. I just see a lot of people just don’t give it the effort that they need to.
– And we see that if we talk to sellers there are two goals are always, I need to get more reviews and I wanna launch more products and to do that chatbots are gonna be a great tool to do both of those. You can launch new products to this list. You can ask them, hey which product would you come out with? Or what design do you like or what color do you like? You can do stuff like that to keep them engaged so that when you do launch the product you’re able to launch to that audience and now you’ve got yourself a little bit of a boost when you get that product going on Amazon.
– Exactly, I mean that’s one way that we use our brand rep grouper with our nano influencers. I talk about this a ton is we rely on them for that sort of product feedback. But then we also go through and we’ll do segmentation surveys where they’re really in depth, like 40 questions, like really in depth. And we’ve had 450, 500 people go through a 400 question survey and they give us details of like what they like about our products, what they don’t like about our products, what they like about our competition, who their favorite person to purchase from that, isn’t us. It’s really amazing data that, again, if you don’t have a list, you can’t ask people, you’ve got to build a list. You got to start somewhere but until you get there, and that’s the same thing you said, everyone, every seller that I talked to they’re all concerned about products launching products and getting reviews. That’s great. So am I, but why, why, why are you concerned? Are you looking for an exit? Are you just looking to make a bunch of money? What’s the deal like why? And also have you thought about maybe just building an audience and watching to that audience, have you thought about doing that? Most people haven’t. They just think I wanna get it on Amazon. Start PPC, do a whole bunch of rebates and hope it sticks. It’s kind of like firing a shotgun in the air and hope that a duck flies over that hits your pellets. So you go home with a duck dinner. It’s so dumb.
– But I can tell you that’s one of the main mistakes I made with my first product is it took off. It was early. It was back when you could launch product super easy on Amazon and do all the things we were talking about and just like ask people for reviews, get up, you know send them out to the top reviewers on Amazon. You could email them directly and send them out to them. But anyway, I failed in my first product launch I think to really connect, build that brand. And then when my product became more commoditized on Amazon once it became a ton of sellers of it and there was they’re all the same, I had no differentiator. I was one of, like you said, then it goes to a price war. And so all of a sudden my selling my product for half of what I used to, and then it’s a non tenable. And so you have to move on and it’s a looking back. It would’ve been nice to focus a lot on building an audience around that, because that product, I could have expanded into a ton of products that were relatable.
– Right, and it’s those learning experiences that we look back on. And we’re like, that was so stupid. I wish we would’ve done something differently but now, you know?
– And now you’re doing stuff differently. And that’s the thing that I’m trying to just impress on new sellers now to learn from our mistakes. So they don’t, because for one, just imagine if every product on Amazon had a unique selling proposition, what does that do to competition, right? It makes competition easier in my head because you don’t have 25 of the same exact looking thing. And you’re like, okay, well, this one has 3,500 reviews. And this one has 5,000 reviews. This one has a Brown box, and this one has a white box. Wait, but this one looks like it has a Chinese seller name who that are, then you’re not, it’s like it makes it easier for the buyer. And really that’s all Amazon cares about as the buyer. They don’t, they care about you in so much as you connect them to buyers, but that’s about it. You know, like it’s funny that we joke about how terrible Amazon seller support or Walmart seller support is. And we say how great Amazon’s is. But then if you talk about Amazon seller support as on its own, it’s terrible.
– That’s a totally different topic.
– I Know a complete rabbit trail, sorry about that.
– No, I mean, I hear you used to be able to call them now. It’s like a, you have to go down different paths and stuff.
– You got to speak Spanish just to get to somebody in North America.
– That’s true, it’s true. Well, I got to quit. So once somebody has gone through this flow you’ve got their information. Now, how are you reconnecting with them in the future? Is it via the Messenger again, or via the email address that you’ve got or do you do a whole do you have a strategy where you go there?
– So they tell us how they prefer. And sometimes they just wanna unsubscribe completely and that’s fine, but we provide options for them to opt in through SMS through Messenger. Obviously they’re automatically opted in through Messenger and email. So email, SMS, and Messenger all in the same flow. So that example that he gave you the five-step flow where you’re getting phone, email, those two steps, email and SMS. If you add like a step and a half of just asking them if they would like to receive future communication, that’s your consent that you legally need to message them. Now, you’re gonna wanna look up the rules, the laws in your area consult your attorney or whatever, but, you know just do some Googling and see what the disclaimers are. But then you have three points of contact that you can talk to people as they see fit. Now with Messenger, how you do this as you set up a one-time notification request. So inside ManyChat, you can apply for this. It’s a beta it’s one click inside Facebook and a one-time notification requests like Kris you said at the very start of this week we used to broadcast and do whatever we want, right? Like it was kind of the wild West. Like you weren’t supposed to, but everybody was doing it. It was just, everybody knew that everybody was doing it, right? So now how you do that is to do it for free is you get a one-time notification request. And so again, you need to present your audience with options that they want, how they want you to communicate with them. It’s all about consent, okay? So with consent, it doesn’t matter if it’s email, SMS or Messenger, they’ve got to give you consent. Now how they track consent in Messenger is that one time notification request. If they tap that, it says, get notified, you set up a token on the backend, basically let’s say, hey, Kris, I wanna let you know when we have a new product coming out, we’ll give you a discount for a sneak peek. Would you want us to let you know? You say yes or no. So you say, get notified that stores a token on your account inside my ManyChat account which is then I can redeem that to Facebook. And now the cool thing about that, it says one time but I can redo that over and over and over and over again. So I can say, so let’s say that you said yes, I send you an alert. Hey, Kris, we’ve got this awesome new eraser that has a built-in sprayer for the whiteboard care. You’re gonna love it. We’re gonna give it to you for 40% off today as an insider only. You’re like, okay, that’s awesome. You buy it. Okay, great, Kris, hey we wanna let you know about more deals in the future. You gotta tap this button. Is that okay? Then you tap it again. So the best thing about this is that you’re filtering people based on their propensity to purchase from you. And they’re gonna say in the future whether or not they might buy. So if they ever say no, then they’ve self-selected that they don’t wanna buy from you anymore. So you could either change your messaging and figure out how you could get them back into the fold or just realize that that purchaser is no longer. They maybe they’ve moved out of your demographic or something.
– See, that’s why you need somebody like Paul ’cause I had no idea about that one-time notification thing. It’s that’s a complete new feature that I didn’t even know existed.
– Yeah and it’s pretty simple to do. You could just Google. I mean, I have training in the course and I’m gonna be opening up that section for free. I’ve been saying this for years so I should probably just do it and make it for free. But the way that I set up our courses that we have, again, being strategy oriented, we have three sets of toolkits, beginner, intermediate, and advanced. And all of these toolkits are designed to basically help people understand what the tools are that ManyChat can do. Because I believe that if you understand what a tool does, then you can be creative and figure out how you’re gonna build something, right? So if I were to give you, you know, $50,000 worth of tools, everything you would ever need to build a house and you just didn’t know how they worked, you would be, you’d be like, okay, this is worthless to me, right? Because you don’t know how to use them. So that’s how I set our course up is that I figured out, okay, you got to know the tools because strategically I have a bunch of things that I can show you. Like, these are general rules of thumb for getting reviews, general processes for getting launching products. But if you know how the tools work, then you can do your own thing. And you don’t need to rely on me if you don’t want to. Simple fact of the matter is that most people are like, I’m too busy, can I just pay you?
– That’s where my mind went.
– And I mean, I get it ’cause I’m there too, so.
– That’s great. I mean, that’s the whole teach somebody to fish, instead of giving him a fish is what you’re talking about right there. And that’s fantastic. And well, let’s in a little bit of time, we have left. Let’s talk about, let’s say someone like me who needs to add something this to their business and I wanna work with you what does that look like if I work with you to get these flow set up, what does that look like?
– Yeah, so you have two routes. Like I said, you have the Chat Marketing University route which you can learn at yourself. You know, we have weekly or bi-weekly office hours that you can subscribe to. That is like an hour of my time, just hanging out and talking chatbots. If you wanna do it yourself, or you have an employee that you wanna learn, that’s a good route. If you’d rather just hire us to do it, you can connect with us at the chatagency.com. So ChatMarketingUniversity.com is that you do it yourself arm, the chatagency.com is the done for you service. And we have a ton more that we focus on there too which I didn’t even get. I mentioned nano influencers a handful of times, but that’s a core. That’s kind of, one of the core offerings that we do is we always start with nano influencer base, build out your base and then move on to drinking and traffic after that
– Real quick, explain nano influencers for someone who doesn’t know.
– So, yeah, so everyone by now should be familiar with influencer marketing. If you’re not, Google it. And Gary V has a boatload of stuff like he’s been promoting this for a decade now but a nano influencer is just smaller than micro. So in the term of what is it, Roman, is it Latin nano, micro, mega, macro, those sorts of things. So there’s all these tiers of influencers. There’s like nano influencers, then micro influencers then macro influencers, then mid tier, then mega then celebrity. Nano is in the bottom. And basically a nano influencer is really anyone with a social media account. Now, there are people that stylized themselves as nano influencers. In my opinion, people that are considering themselves a nano influencer generally are not worth paying. And this may get me in hot water with some influencers, but here’s the thing. If you don’t have an audience and you haven’t put the time in to build an audience that’s engaged, then you don’t have anything to buy. What you need to do. And so what we do is we work with nano influencers to help them build their audiences to get to that micro stage so that they can start making money with other brands. And what we do is we partner with nano influencers primarily because it’s a lot better trade off in terms of what we have to offer them and what they have to offer us. And it’s not gonna break the bank like it is with like mega or celebrity influencers specifically.
– Yeah, well that’s something that I definitely use as an approach. And when Kris, now we did we’ve talked about this before, on one of the shows. It’s just, you can find a lot of influencers who will, they’re small, they’re still there in their startup phase. They’re still trying to grow and you get a bunch of those to talk about your product and that can have a huge payoff.
– And it’s absolutely massive. And I mean, that could be a whole another podcast we could do.
– Just to touch on that. There was an influencer. I showed Dustin the other day that she just promoted these like reflexology facial tools. And my wife was telling me about it. And I went to the listing and the, you know I was looking at the BSR tracker. It was pretty steady and pretty steady per session. And it just dropped. And then the seller went out of stock. I was just imagining like, if you’re that seller you know, you’re getting 10 units a day, 10, 20 units a day that boom, you sell 500. You’re like, where the hell that traffic come from, you have no idea, but that’s the power of an influencer. It’s like somebody just promoted her product or product and boom, they sold out.
– Yeah, it’s amazing. I mean, I’m not saying that all influencers aren’t worth being paid, don’t because I do believe that people were being paid. But what I do, what I have experienced is that of the time influencers, overvalue their worth, most of the time, like financially is what I mean. So I’d love, I’m gonna be having more conversations with influencers on Clubhouse, because it’s a hot topic. And it’s one of those things that people are trying to figure out now. I mean, obviously it’s a service that we offer. And so from a service provider standpoint, I wanna do a better job of making sure that we’re the best.
– Absolutely, well, this is fascinating. We do, we have to get you back on because there’s no bunch of rabbit holes. We can go down here in different groups that we can go on but this has been fascinating, especially for me and anybody else who hasn’t done this within their business yet really tried to basic go outside of Amazon and really build an audience and build a brand from that super valuable. We really appreciate it. So again, before we go, how can someone get in contact with you? Just let you give them real quick.
– Yeah, they’ll give you a really quick one. So it’ll give you a template that you can download for ManyChat, go to cmu.life/ppi. So it’s Chat Marketing University, cmu.lifeppi that sends for post-purchase insert. And what that’ll do is it’ll walk you through a ManyChat funnel that I’ve set up. It’ll show you how we gather information so you can kind of see some of the ways that you can do that with your business. And at the end, once you complete all those steps, it’ll send you to a landing page that you can download the template and install it onto your ManyChat account. Now, full disclosure you will need a ManyChat pro account, which is only $10. If you can’t afford $10, you probably shouldn’t be in business, but it is only $10 and it is worth it. So there you go. Yeah, cmu.life/ppi. If you’re looking to hire us, you can go to the chatagency.com.
– That’s awesome. I’m gonna go right after this. I encourage everyone else to do that right now as well. You can see the flow that you put together. Paul, thanks so much for coming on. We’ll get you back on again to talk about all these other things but it’s been an absolute blast. I know it’s been great for everybody listening. So thanks again. And we’ll be back at this again tomorrow everybody, have a great day.