Kris Gramlich and Dustin Kane talk about starting an Amazon product launch and how to use Amazon PPC to your advantage with Thomas Syvertsen.
Tips For A Successful Product Launch On Amazon
Find out what Thomas feels is the best practices to follow when you start a product launch.
What structure do you follow when setting up an Amazon PPC campaign?
How does the Amazon algorithm affect your product launch?
How do you maximize the potential of your product when running Amazon PPC campaigns?
What is your Amazon Product Launch Strategy using Amazon Pay Per Click?
Thomas Syvertsen is the CEO of Login2Profits, a full service Amazon agency acting as an Amazon PPC Expert for brands, private labels and third party sellers.
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– Hello everyone and welcome to episode 117 of Two Amazon Sellers and a Microphone brought to you by Sellozo. Today Kris and I are very excited to be talking with Thomas Syvertsen from Login 2 Profits. Thomas, how are you doing?
– Doing well, thank you. Thank you for having me.
– We’re excited to have you and this is a great topic we’ll be talking about, just talking about different strategies for using Amazon PPC effectively for product launches, which that’s gonna resonate with a lot of our listeners for sure.
– I’m glad to hear that.
– So, but before we dive into that, we want to know more about you, Thomas. So take your time. Tell us all about how you got into this space, what you’re doing, Login 2 Profits. You got the floor.
– All right, thank you. Yes, I’ve been doing probably internet marketing now since like 2002. I started in regular kind of internet marketing. I was a marketing director for a gym. Like I kind of had like traditional kind of marketing jobs. And then in 2017 I made a leap to start with Amazon. So I moved to Vegas actually for that. There’s a big seller here in town. They’re doing about 20 million a year, so I started managing their PPC ads and that’s how I got into it. We grew their ad sales, you know, it was like a seven figure ad campaign. I don’t remember exactly how much we grew it, but I think we grew like 50 or 100% year over year. And we took the A cost down from 13 to 10. So, you know, it was a pretty good introduction year for me to get into PPC, so that’s how I learned. They had over 5,000 skews, is awesome. Like you got the practice and all the ad formats and all different products and seasonality and see how it all connects, you see what I’m saying, so you’re learning a lot just by, I would say advertise different products. And then after that, I got recruited for another company that was in Florida. So they do a vitamins. So they were pretty fast growing company as well. And they were a seller so they basically recruited me to manage their PPC. So I got to, you know, 70% raise and I got to work remote like one week a month, so that was pretty cool. So I did that a little bit. That company ended up growing from zero to 100 million a year in less than two years. And they were at 20 million when I got there. So they grew from 20 to 100 million that year. And I also help them like onboard and like land some of the brands that they were talking to ’cause they’re reselling large brands, obviously. So yeah, I was in some of those meetings and pitched, you know, the whole marketing thing about Amazon and ironically that’s when they were getting excited when they want to talk about the advertising opportunities for their brand, because like they have whatever they have for sale sales. You see what I’m saying? Especially if they’re established, so everyone wants to grow their sales. So, you know, that’s why I think PPC is really unique because once you subject their product for a certain traffic, a certain search terms, right? Like you will rank for those keywords unless you have a lousy conversion rate, but obviously like branded products usually sell pretty well. Like their weaknesses is generally content and not fixing their listings and things like that. But generally they convert pretty well because people recognize the product and sort of what they’re looking for. So then I did that for four or five months, and then I started my own agency. I had a little bit of a falling out with the boss man over there and so, you know, I figured I started my own agency. I was like, if I can charge this much to do PPC for one account, like I can charge a third or half of that and just do it from home and be a consultant, you see what I’m saying, and I have multiple accounts. So, you know, at first I just wanted to like make 10K a month I remember. And it’s like, I just wanted like four accounts at like 2,500 each or something like that. And I, like, I hit that the first month then like the second month I was like, you know, I want it to hit like 12K or something. Then I’m at like 15. And then the third month, I think I made like 19 or something. And then my fourth full month, I think I built over 55K. And then I was like, yeah, at that point I was like hooked. That was like my fourth month. I was like, I was broke like five months ago, you know what I mean, before this, but, you know, it’s an amazing skill, you know, it’s really valuable. I mean, that’s the truth of it because if I manage PPC and I follow these best practices, or what have you, like, they will sell a lot more. Like the profitability will be a lot better. So, you know, it really is I would say one of the most important things to manage in your Amazon account. And if your ads aren’t doing well, like you aren’t probably doing well organically either, or especially not as good as you could do. So those two go hand in hand. So my goal is to just grow the average profits for the seller. I don’t really care what the A cost is or what the percentage of organic versus paid is. Like, I just want you to make the most money overall. And sometimes you just gotta, you know, run the account and then look for patterns and see what’s going on with the account, and then try to make strategic decisions based on what you see and then, you know, figure it out basically. But obviously every part is gonna hit a ceiling where it’s like, you know, it’s not gonna do anymore, but even at that point, it’s still very important to manage your A cost and all that to maintain profitability.
– Well, we’ll talk about that ’cause you bring up a good point about not necessarily being super concerned about the A cost. That’s a huge one for so many sellers. They get so hung up on that, that it usually handcuffs them, usually stifles their growth. So we’ll dig in into that, but I want to touch on something ’cause you’ve been in marketing for a long time it sounds like. Even before Amazon, you were doing marketing for a long time. Just touch on the difference, like, ’cause this is huge I think for people that have signed on Amazon to understand. What’s different about advertising on Amazon as opposed to all the other types of advertising you can do? There’s a double benefit.
– Right, right. So, you know, I come from, you know, the Google ad world. I’m hearing a little bit of feedback, that’s fine. So, sorry, yeah, so, what was the question again?
– I’ll mute my mic afterwards that way you don’t hear any feedback, but explain the difference between what the impact of advertising on Amazon versus all the other types of advertising you’ve done in your path.
– Gotcha. First of all, I think the conversion rate is a lot better. I mean, you know, you hear about traditional kind of Shopify website or whatever they had before this, you know, Yahoo sites or whatever, you know, it was like one or 2% conversion rate. Amazon like frequently, we see conversion rates over 50, right, like even 75 and things like that. So it’s like on branded keywords, it’s like very close to 100 even. So obviously the ROI I think is fantastic. It’s one of the best places to advertise because I kind of look at Amazon like this. It’s a fishbowl with traffic built in and you’re just buying off of that traffic trying to maximize your overall profits and some of it is paid and some of it is free and your job is to have the right combination for your catalog and your pricing, you know, given what you have, you see what I’m saying, given your margins and everything else. Obviously you got to take everything into consideration. But with Google, you know, there’s, you know, I don’t know, I mean, I like Amazon advertising a lot better. It converts a lot better, like less issues with like fraudulent clicks. I just had to pause some campaigns for my own agency that was like all fraudulent clicks so like I got hundreds of leads that were all fake from being in Google traffic. You see what I’m saying? So, yeah, I mean, I think it’s a lot better. I think they have less issues with like fraudulent clicks, things like that and people are actually getting a good ROI. And like I said, if you subject a product for the right traffic with the right keywords, it’s gonna take off organically for those same keywords. Like Amazon is not stupid. Like if you think about it, like if you had to sort products in order, based on someone’s search, you would have the highest converting product first, second highest, second, and so forth. And that’s what they do and they look at historic, you know, what has happened as of lately, right, because they gotta look at recency over historic, if they, for example, change their pricing since they were a bestseller, so they can’t like do last 90 days for example. But I’m sure they’re looking at a bunch of data points, but I mean, they basically told me they rank based on expected conversion rate. That’s it. I mean, that’s it, that’s the only metric.
– Yeah, you get your product caught up in that flywheel effect and that’s what I think is the biggest difference. I mean, you touched on it. If you subject your product to certain keywords, Amazon rewards you if it converts and you start generating all of these organic sales and I think for a newer sellers or even large companies that don’t totally understand the Amazon marketplace, that’s when they get hung up on like the A cost number and they’re like, no, I gotta have it. My A cost has to be profitable. I got to have it 5% A cost and they’re missing the entire big picture.
– What if your product was ranked number one for your main keyword? Wouldn’t that be a different scenario?
– Yeah, I mean, I’ll ask them like this, right? Like I’ll just say things like, you know, you care about like how many profit dollars you take home, how many margin dollars, right? Like that’s, I don’t care like if you make, like, I mean, if you make $2 million profit, I don’t really care if it comes in at a 10% margin or 30% margin, like that doesn’t bother me. You know what I mean? If 2 million is the max let’s go for the max, like that’s what I want to achieve with my clients and that what we’re trying to achieve. We’re trying to use math and reporting and things like that. Excel, fancy stuff.
– So let’s dive in now to just talking about launching products with PPC. What are some of your just sort of standard best practices for somebody launching a product? I guess you can go into, I’m sure people have different budgets when they get started launching and there’s probably different versions, different budgets, but give us sort of your best practices for a launch.
– Yeah, I mean, I’m pretty old school, you know, I keep it simple. I would say aggressive PPC. So, you know, as much as you can afford to, as far as, you know, A cost goes, so maybe, I don’t know, depends how cheap you are, I guess. But if you normally like, you know, let’s say your normally cost is like 30% or something for your bread and butter stuff, maybe go 50, 60% for your launch. You see what I’m saying? So you’re cranking it up your, your PPC ads. You’re willing to spend more because your ROI’s not gonna be good so you’re not gonna have enough reviews and stuff like, so your conversion rates not gonna be the greatest, but you got to get sales going, right. So crank up PPC and then, you know, have a giveaway on the side with coupons and stuff, just to get the sales velocity, get some units going. Obviously back in the day, you could get reviews from those. You can’t do that stuff anymore, so now it’s just straight up for velocity. And also I think this is where people gotta be careful also. Don’t give away too many units unless you know what you’re doing, then it’s almost better to stick to the PPC because they’re not gonna drive as much rank as you think, unless you also have a good conversion rate. So you’ve got, like, I knew a guy, like he was like giving away like probably a thousand dollars a day worth of products for like months on end and they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. And he was converting like somewhere in the ranks of like one in 15 clicks for his main keyword. He needed to be at one and five to be competitive for that keyword on that. So it doesn’t matter how many bottles he gives away. Like, it really doesn’t matter. He needed to fix his pricing, his bottle, his listing, you know, he had other problems. So you gotta kind of understand what you’re trying to achieve. Then obviously you’ve got to gauge, you know, I would say you gotta gauge the sales velocity on the first page. So what’s going on? Like how much are these guys selling? There’s other people are selling around 10K a month or whatever, like that’s probably where you got to be at. So, you know, and that’s also good benchmark to figure out like how many units to give away ’cause you look at how many units I’m selling with PPC, how many units I’m selling with organic, and then you see how many are lacking to catch up with the other guys. So that’s probably, you know, what you should aim towards as far as the giveaway goes go away and, you know, give away 50% coupons until you have enough volume to kind of match that. So, yeah, that’s probably what I would say, you know, try and get some reviews, obviously, very rarely you can do that anymore. I don’t know if you have those automated emails, but they’re getting blocked more and more so, you know, if there’s ways of getting reviews within the terms of service, I would try that obviously, if you have an email list, anything like that, any brand asset like a Facebook list, I would leverage that like any kind of list, any kind of media, whatever you have going on from before. Ex-customers are always great. If you have a list of previous customers, I would definitely market to those first and try to, you know, they were more likely to leave reviews and things like that also.
– When setting up the campaigns, we get this question a lot too, is what structure do I do? Like, do I need to do an auto, do I need to do broad phrase exact? What’s your opinion on that?
– Right. I set up all ad formats for all products. So I would say depends on your skill level, obviously, if you’re just, you know, if you’re just really a seller and you don’t really pay anyone to manage, I would just maybe go for auto. You see what I’m saying, until you know what you’re doing. Even if there’s one bit up and down until you, you know, if you can’t hit A cost and lower your bid a little bit, you know, and then let it run for a little bit and then, you know, take out some negatives and try to negative out the stuff that is not working. And then you can like weasel your way down to decent A costs, which is one bit, you know. I think Amazon has a lot of good features, but obviously, you know, as you get more experienced, like what I do is I have, like I said, one ad format for each, I have matching campaign names with, so the campaign names matches, whereas like automatic, ace and manual, et cetera. And then I can transfer keywords around in bulk. So I can transfer keywords from the auto to the manual, negative them out in the auto afterward after the fact. So I can control them better over there. The reason you want to do that is you can squeeze out more orders. Once you have an exact, for example, you can squeeze out more orders than, for example, if you’re bid up on it as a rod or a phrase or whatever, or in an auto campaign, you’re just like getting, you know, let’s say 30, 40% of the clicks you could get, maybe if you have an exact, so yeah, so you want to basically know what your best keywords are those are the one you discover with your discovery campaigns so to speak, which is usually an auto campaigns, but it could be these like async campaigns to when you bid on a category or for example, and by doing that, you discover some since that you’re now gonna start bidding on manually after you discover them. So yeah, sometimes, you know, you discover things even under a broad right, a broad isn’t like a lot of people don’t understand the difference between the match types, but, you know, a broad just based on what Amazon thinks that is. So it could be anything like, it’s really broad phrase, you know, the words needs to stick together how they are, you know, if it’s cat food, it’s gotta be cat food stick together and then something else after, before, whatever. And then if it’s exact, it’s just exactly that. So then it’s pretty specific. So a broad actually bids on a lot more, bids on synonyms and things like that, which is good. I mean, if not, you know, we just would get really limited traffic. That’s kind of probably how I would do how I would do it.
– There’s a lot of different ways to do that. Like you could do a broad in one campaign phrase and one campaign an exactly one campaign. I’ve seen people do one campaign with three different ad groups. I’ve seen it with one campaign, with one ad group with all match types. So is there a specific, which one do you like?
– So I go, on the ad group level, I go like ascend and then like product title or something. And then I have all the ad groups, like the different acends and then I just throw everything in there until it’s full until there’s a thousand keywords. I don’t really care cause I manage it in bulk anyways. So I don’t need to like have the exact ad group by themselves and the same with the broads and the phrases. I just manage them all together, but sometimes it gets full and then I’ll start a second ad group. Then I’ll just duplicate the ad group name and do like dash two, keep it simple.
– And how long are you running these aggressively for a product launch? Is that two weeks? Two months? What’s the strategy there?
– It depends a little bit, but I think a lot can be a bit done in 30 to 60 days. I would say no longer than 90 days. I say that’s probably the long end of a launch. Some products launched so fast because they sell so well. So they are like full sales velocity after 21 days. I had one product go go from zero to three and a half million a year in 21 days. We had 14 reviews and it was competing against product that had like 2,000 reviews. But you know, they hit it right with price point and product mix, everything, you see what I’m saying. Every so often you have a home run and then you see like the algorithm actually works really well. You know what I mean? You don’t have to do too much, you know, like I worked on the ad campaign like maybe like, I don’t know, like 10 minutes a day or something like that, like not much just tweaked a little bit. It was running at like 30% A cost 30, 40, 33 or 34 or something like that. I think they had about a 35%, 40% margin and selling like a relatively cheap supplement. So they were killing it.
– You hit on something that when you talked about the Amazon algorithm works really well and I agree with you, and I think that you get instant feedback from that algorithm. If your ads not has no impressions, or it’s not, Amazon’s telling you this product, we don’t give it a very good relevancy score for this keyword, and at what point do you talk to like a client, like the issue is a product we’ve got to now tweak the product because the campaigns are working as intended but it’s not gonna do anything.
– The technical word is the product sucks. That’s what it is. So, you know, I mean, we just try to maximize the potential. Like even shitty products sells a little bit, right? So if you have a thousand products, you’re gonna have shitty products, right? No matter who you are, even if you’re Nike, you know what I mean? Like you’re gonna have something that’s low quality that doesn’t sell well, that’s struggling. So I kind of look at our job, like kind of just maximizing your catalog, given what you have, you see what I’m saying, so if I can take it up this potential, even if that potential is only like 500 bucks a month, so be it. I don’t worry about it too much. Obviously I try to communicate with the sellers that I advertise for because they need to price the product well, and that means they need to keep the product relatively, for my strategy to work relatively well, which is managing by A cost, for that strategy to be effective, they need to keep the pricing so the product is relatively equal, competitive wise, because let’s say it falls behind, now we get that negative feedback loop where I’m forced to reduce my bids because the cost is going up, conversion rate is going down. I’m just gonna reduce, reduce, reduce, and eventually the traffic goes down, sales goes down and then organic comes down. So then it all goes down. So if that starts happening, then, you know, it’s a pricing issue, but obviously they have the margin they have. So you see what I’m saying? So it’s kind of a dialogue to, I would say it’s more of a pricing. If they can be dynamic, like, we don’t really need to talk about it. Like, I don’t know what they have for a sales plan for each product, you see what I’m saying? Some are more active than others and some, I would say the best sellers are pretty active with their pricing and being aggressive too. I see the ones that are struggling. They’re usually greedy, like they charge way too much for their brand new product because they think they just can take a lot of margin and whatever, but I mean, that’s fine, but I mean, if it works right, you get the data and that’s what I’m saying. The algorithm is telling you, like, you’re selling like one unit a month, you know, maybe try something else. Like you can always change the back. It can go back to your high price if it, you know, if you don’t think that’s what it is, you see what I’m saying? So, yeah, I mean, try different things. It’s price, photos, you know, listing quality, product quality. Obviously, if you’re having your product manufactured already, like, it is what it is and I guess you can improve it on the next go around, or if you’re making a 2.0 or whatever, but I mean, for the most part, it’s just lipstick on a bulldog, right. And you can’t really like make it yeah. You can’t, you know, take issue out and make it into a race horse. Like it’s just not gonna happen, but you know, it can do its potential and that’s, I would say the dialogue I have with clients more that I find productive is talk about what skews that I think should do more. Where are their untapped potential, whether it’s a 3,000 skew that could do 10K or 10K skew that could do 20K, like, I don’t really care where the growth comes from. Let’s just see, you know, based on you might use software, go to Amazon and look for revenue numbers and be like, Hey, we’re way behind with this product. Like it should do better or whatever, like that’s when I think you can start to make better decisions, maybe change your A cost, change your pricing a little bit, do a giveaway, do a coupon. Amazon have all these programs and a lot of people they don’t participate. So I would say the more of those programs you participate in, the better program will rank what is, you know, lightening deals, all this stuff. Like it doesn’t work. So, yeah, I mean, Amazon told me directly, if you run a deal, for example, like if you run a aggressive PPC for the next 30 to 90 days, you get that halo effect like we talked about, it is real. You know what I mean? Like that’s not something like, even when Amazon talks about it with sellers, like I would say it’s pretty, you know, safe to say is real. But I mean, obviously there’s a lot of theories out there that I would say is bullshit, but you know what I mean? Especially a lot of these rank and launch people because they don’t, they’re not real, just like what we talked about. If the pricing is too high, it doesn’t matter how many units do you give away, how theoretically correct you do the launch. If it’s over, like, it just doesn’t convert.
– Eventually it’s gonna come back down to earth.
– That’s right. So you can only, even if you’re like cheaters, right, like some of these Chinese sellers and stuff, they’re buying their own products back, but that costs money too, like started watering down their own profit. Honestly, it’s the best if you can just hit a home run, but obviously it’s hard to do so I understand the temptation to cheat, but, you know, I would rather just, you know, try to move on and just launch more products versus trying to make an old one work, if that makes sense.
– Make it shiny and when it doesn’t have anything to-
– Exactly. I mean, if it’s established, if it’s not established yet you gotta do your launch. You know what I mean? You gotta get the reviews, get some PPC campaigns going. But if you’re like, Hey, this product just doesn’t sell well enough, you know, unless we dropped the price to what we think is this, but then we’re not making any money, so, you know, we’re already priced as low as we can then, you know what I mean? It is what it is at that point.
– Yeah, a lot of sellers we see too, and we’re guilty, not guilty. We fall in love with it and we want to keep it around and we want to try and make it work. But then at the end of the day, it’s like I wasted months and months trying to make this thing work and it never went to work anyway. I should’ve just got rid of it and move on.
– Have you seen this though? This has happened to me a couple of times where I had products where we’re liquidating or we’re like, fuck this product, we’re gonna get rid of it. So we have even the liquidation PPC campaign and they just keep dropping their price until it moves. That’s how you liquidate right. Every day go in and drop it a dollar, right? And then eventually like some of these starts getting well and you’re like shit.
– Maybe I’ll keep it.
– Yeah, I literally had them keep it. And they’re like, no, we don’t want to liquidate anymore. Why not? Now, now that it’s doing so well. Yeah, ’cause we had the liquidation campaigns and now the algorithm is picking it back up. So it was a pricing issue the whole time. Like, especially if you could have afforded it, you know what I mean? If you’re below your breakeven price point and whatnot and you like legitimately liquidating. But, yeah, I mean, it does happen.
– Yeah, at the very beginning, what would you say? Because a lot of new sellers, they don’t have the capital to do a lot of testing campaigns and discover campaigns and auto campaigns and brand campaigns and all that stuff. They just have $30 or $50 a day they need to focus on and they need to spend that on advertising. What would that be? What would, if you had to pick one campaign, I have $50 to spend, where would you go with it?
– First, great question, by the way. I don’t do it like that. I do uncapped spend, no matter what. I have it at A cost be the restrictor. So they will be in restriction. It’s not gonna, you’re not gonna spend unlimited, but I would say this, if you just had like a limited budget, whatever you want to, you want to nail the big money keywords or a keyword that you think you can rank for. And honestly, some of the time, it’s not the keyword you think, so you have the money where the big keyword that is almost impossible to rank for like vitamin C, right? For example, like very competitive, but you could rank for like vitamin C 500 milligram. Like that’s a little easier. So you rank for a lot of, sometimes you backdoor your way up to the first page by ranking for some of these easier keywords and this is why it’s important to add your keywords as phrase, as broad and everything else ’cause you get a little variation then, and you start to rank for these variations. They’re not searched as much. And some of the competition may not have those keywords in their campaign so you might have some unique, competitive advantage where you, you know, shoot ahead a little bit. So, but I would say like, but you want to hammer the exact keywords. So yeah, the exact keywords that you want to rank for, but obviously it’s something, but let’s say you get a bad A cost for the main keyword that you are like, oh man, I wish I could rank for this. And it’s like $4 a click and my product is 15 bucks, you know what I mean? Like it ain’t gonna do it, you know what I mean? Then you get this guy to go to the second best keyword and try to buy that for a dollar or whatever you can get it for, you know what I mean? And that’s sorta how I would go about it. But yeah, your job is just to buy as much traffic as you possibly can, given your A cost restriction and then aim every keyword towards that. If you see a keyword at 10%, raise the bid, keep raising it until it’s like hitting the ceiling of the A cost goal and then you got to back off. I mean, if you’re A cost goal it’s like 30, I would probably back off after like 25 or something, but you know, keep raising your bid until you’re almost there ’cause that’s where it is evolving comes from, you know? And that’s how, you know, that’s how we kind of achieved, you know, the most amazing results we ever did for our clients is exactly because of that ’cause we’re able to now raise the ad sales by double. Now the organic is gonna double and they’re gonna have organic rank for all these keywords they used to not have rank for.
– You started this answer by saying, you don’t have a prop, you don’t have a budget limitation. You have an A cost limitation. Describe what that means.
– Yeah, so I’m willing to sell unlimited products, given my A cost restrictions. So yeah, let’s say the margin on a product is like 40% or something and our A cost goal is 30%, so yeah, it’s profitable, every sale is profitable. So if I see a keyword yeah, exactly, I’m gonna raise the bid and it’s gonna do more units. I’m gonna add more keywords, try to find similar keywords that I think is gonna provide similar kind of sales or I don’t even care like it doesn’t even have to be the same conversion rate. Like any keyword that sells at all can be added into the campaign and you just manage the bid to get the right A cost. So even if it sells one in 50 clicks, that’s okay. As long as you only pay what you want to pay, but that’s what I do, right, and I do it, you know, thousands of keywords at a time and try to maximize, squeeze out the most juice out of every single one. I mean, that’s really yet like if you have the correct bids, that’s how you maximize your sales give your A cost restriction, but eventually right like some of them will start to show high A costs. You’re forced to reduce it. Now that drought drops in traffic or whatever, if you, obviously, if you sell out your product and now it’s out of stock and now it’s FBM, now your A cost is gonna go way down or I mean go way up because FBM doesn’t convert as well. So there’s all these things to think about, you know? So obviously you’ve got to have the inventory and things like that, so there’s a little bit of that going on, but for the most part, we just wanna speed up the sales.
– When you’re doing this, how often are you adjusting the bids to hit these A cost targets? Are you doing it weekly or daily or how often are you going in there to make these adjustments?
– So it depends a little bit on the size of the account. I would say it’s a very small account, I don’t manage that small, but I would say if you’re just a small seller doing like less than a million, I would say you’re probably every two weeks. It should be good. I do it weekly for all of my clients. And I also check on it every couple of days, depending on, so sometimes you do daily tweaks where you go in and if you’re, for example, scaling a new campaign, you know, there’s always like a bunch of bids you could raise or whatever and like, so you could go in and do things like that either in bulk or in the browser. Sometimes I like to do the daily checkups just in the browser to see how things are going. But most of the stuff, I just do a weekly and I do it all in bulk. So I do all of their bids, like every single bid, I either touch on like, or I choose not to touch on, but I do all of their bids weekly.
– Are you manipulating, it’s probably a bad word, but are you adjusting the, like the placements on these campaigns, top of search pod page? Are you leaving those at zero? How does that, what do you do there?
– Another great question. Too bad I don’t have that graphic on me. Maybe I can email to you guys and add it to the attachments or something, but basically what you want to do there, you wanna balance your A cost on those. So for example, so, those placement bid adjustments is basically what they were used to be called. Now they’re called placements I think. So basically usually the top one, I think that’s top of search. That one I usually I have set to 50, that was the old bid plus. So if you don’t know anything and you’re like, just want to go old school, this put it at 50 and zero that’s what it used to be. And that’s pretty fucking good. Sorry, that works, probably better delete that. So that works like that’s tried and true work horse, you know what I mean? And it works for a reason. And again, like if that doesn’t work for you, like maybe you have other problems, maybe, you know, listing issues, pricing issues, and what have you. Amazon is not gonna, sometimes when you don’t get these clicks, it’s your own fault. Like Amazon is not gonna waste a click on a listing that doesn’t convert. Even if they’re getting paid, they could give it to another guy that’s getting conversions. So that’s why sometimes you see these older campaigns that are like selling, like whatever, I mean, it doesn’t matter what it is, selling products for for years on end and then you’d be like, how the hell are you getting these kinds of clicks for this keyword when you see other sellers trying to sell that same product and they can’t even get a fraction? ‘Cause it’s like a proven river of water, see what I’m saying? So the water’s just gonna run that way. It’s not gonna start, like, we don’t have the need for this new thing, right? Like there’s no need for it in the marketplace. So the algorithm is like, this other one is doing fine. But yeah, if that one sells out, maybe we’ll shovel some more traffic this way and see how it does. But in the meantime we don’t really need to give it a lot of traffic. So Amazon is always like selfishly distributing the traffic to whoever sells the best and the most and the longest. And you see what I’m saying? Or most proven or whatever. So yeah, I think Amazon is just a staying game, stay in the game, keep selling what you’re selling, don’t get out competed and hopefully, you know, squeak out a margin the whole way.
– You’d be a fun guy to go to a bar with and have a couple of drinks with.
– I live in Vegas, just hit me up if you come.
– We will definitely take you up on that offer next time. This is fun talking about this. You’ve got some good insights and I like your perspective. A lot of times we talked to people and it gets really analytical, getting in, but just like what you said, just understanding that the feedback you get from Amazon, their algorithm is very, very, very good. They want to make sales and you just touched on it, but you might, you could be bidding way higher than somebody else on a keyword and never get it because-
– Your product’s shitty.
– Yeah, your products not, well, knowing this other product’s gonna sell, so they’re willing to take a 75 cent click over your $1.50 click any day to get that sale.
– Let me tell you where that came from. They stole that feature from Google. So that’s, I call it a relevancy discount. So remember the old Google ad words program. So if two guys are bidding on the same keyword and one guy has double the conversion rate or click through rates, sorry, that the other guy has, he not only wins the auction, but he pays half the price of the other dude. So he actually gets it for 50 cents or whatever. And if the other guy would have won, he would have had to pay the full dollar. Why is that, right? So the rewarding, and I bet you guys see that often in campaigns where you see, for example, branded keywords, but sometimes even strong keywords where you’re like bidding like $15, you’re getting like, you know, 12 cents a click and you’re getting, you know, ’cause you’re dominating that keyword and they’re giving it the relevance to discount. So there’s maybe another guy that like every so often. I mean, I’m one of those guys, like I said, I always raced a bid. I end up with $99 bids, $100 bids on keywords that, you know, really shouldn’t spend more than a couple of bucks a click at the most, but it’s like, I don’t care, I keep raising it until I get a click. So, because I don’t know if it’s gonna come in at 20 cents or not, that’s why I keep doing it. This is why, like I have a lot of weird campaigns. The bids look all messed up, but it’s just how it works, you know what I mean? Because I don’t care what the bid is. I don’t care if it says 100 bucks in the thing if I’m getting 20 cent clicks, but obviously every so often you’re gonna get an expensive click and you need to catch yourself. Like you remember, like when all of a sudden, like the average cost per click was like $8. Like I was like, okay, now there’s been some expensive clicks. I got to go and find them, but that’s pretty easy with bulk and filters and everything like, it’s pretty easy to find once you have them, but yeah, I mean, I don’t, you know, just crank it up.
– So it’s so interesting and you’re exactly right. I mean, people are get so scared about that bid, but if it’s a good keyword and you convert well, you’ll never get charged what you’re bidding and you’ll most likely get charged less than what your competitors are bidding as long as you do better. So it comes down to make sure you’ve got a good product, right?
– And that’s where also, you know, back to those bid adjustments, like that’s where also like they can come in and help you ’cause certain categories are just a little crazy. And then you can use those to kind of just gradually up those if you’re not getting any traffic. Obviously you’ve got to watch your cost per click. I don’t like to use those new dynamic up and down. This is like 100% bid adjustment up and down. It’s just like, how are you gonna get good A cost with that? I just don’t understand. Like, I’m so good with my bids, I don’t honestly need any bid adjustments. Like I can set it on the cents and it will be the A cost it will, unless the conversion rate changed. Like I know exactly what the bid needs to be, but you know, it’s giving you some wiggle room in case competition. It’s like, cause if I raise my bid five cents and then I’m bidding against you, you raise your five cent then, you see what I’m saying? But if we both have bid plus turned on, now it’s getting pushed up by itself because we’re allowing the algorithm to keep the bidding war going a little bit longer. That’s basically what’s going on. So now you’re buying a little bit more traffic, but obviously it was very smart on Amazon’s behalf ’cause it’s, you know, but it’s like going to an auction, right, it’s like, what is this as a storage wars, right? You got to make a profit on what’s in the locker. You can’t pay too much for the locker, you know. There’s no difference. You gotta have your max paying point and that’s where we come back to the, usually the margin of the product and back to the A cost.
– It’s such a good point. We are gonna have to have you back on it’s. It’s fun, Kris.
– This has been good. This is going good. It’s just been a good talk.
– It is, it’s fun to have these conversations and like I said, like your approach, like you’re just big picture outlook on it. I think a lot of people miss that, they get so into the numbers that they miss the big picture, but we’ll get you for sure back on again in the future. There’s always a million things to talk about in this Amazon space, but before we go, let everyone know how they can get in touch with you. If they wanna work with you, or how can they get in touch with you?
– Yeah, fantastic, so I have a website, so that’s Login2Profits.com with the number two in it. And then we have an Instagram channel with the same name, so just Login 2 Profits to see on Instagram, and on LinkedIn, Thomas Syvertsen in one word. So I provided you guys with a URL so I think it’s gonna be in the show notes or whatever. So yeah, just check out my links. I’m getting, what’s that new audio thing?
– Yes, I’m getting on Clubhouse. I’m Login 2 Profits on Clubhouse also, but I haven’t done anything on there yet, but I’m like a podcast nerd, like I love microphones and shit. I’m not so good with video, but so I’m kind of excited about like the Clubhouse.
– It’s awesome. Yeah, Kris and I have been on there quite a bit.
– But is there a way to hook up your quality microphone though, that’s the only thing I’m worried about. Like how can I get my quality microphone in there? You see what I’m saying?
– I don’t know, I don’t think so. I don’t think anybody cares in there.
– Right, ’cause it’s not about that, but it is an edge though if you do have a better mic, you know what I mean? But you could probably look up. Maybe they can upload it to their website or something. Login just like on Instagram, you can go on the browser and.
– Maybe, yeah, I’m not sure. We’ve done everything on the phone that we’ve done so.
– Well, we’ll see it’s a new app still. So are you guys in there?
– Yep, we are. We’ll come find you.
– Yeah, let’s do a room or something. Maybe we’ll like next year is prime there’s and we’ll have a prime day room or something.
– For sure.
– People with questions or something.
– We’re definitely open to doing rooms. They’re fun on there. So we’ll do that. And I encourage everyone who’s watching, go to Clubhouse, follow Login 2 Profits on Clubhouse and then you’re the LinkedIn will be on the show notes here. It’ll be in the description wherever you’re watching this or listening to this. Again, if you enjoy content like this, I encourage you to please subscribe to our podcast, Two Amazon Sellers and a Microphone. It’s on every platform for podcasts out there, subscribe to it, leave us a review, let us know how we’re doing. Also, you can watch these as video live streams on Sellozo’s Facebook channel, so go to Sellozo’s Facebook page and subscribe to that as well or like it, follow it. And the same thing with YouTube, Sellozo’s YouTube channel, follow us there and you can see all these as we go live every day with really cool people like Thomas. Next time Thomas we’ll have you on, we’re gonna have beers, we’re gonna make this sound like we’re all at the bar having a good old time ’cause it’s just fun hanging out and talking like this.
– All right, let’s do it, thank you. Thank you for having me, this was fun.
– Yep, thanks for joining us. We’ll see you next time.