How To Sell Products On Amazon
Amazon Seller Liran Hirschkorn chats with Kris Gramlich and Dustin Kane about how to sell products on Amazon and how he got started with E-commerce.
Liran Hirschkorn – E-commerce Mindset Podcast
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How To Sell Products On Amazon
– Hello everyone, and welcome to episode 72 of Two Amazon Sellers and a Microphone. Today, Kris and I are joined by a great guest. He is the CEO and founder of Incremental Digital. He’s also a fellow podcast host his podcast is E-commerce Mindset, Liran Hirschkorn thanks for joining us.
– Thanks so much for having me on. Happy to be here.
– We’re, we’re glad to be chatting with you because you’re everywhere right now. I go, I get on Clubhouse and I see you, and I get on LinkedIn and I see you. I turn on podcasts, you’re everywhere. You’re a busy man.
– Yeah, you’re consuming too much Amazon content obviously. .
– I know that’s the problem. You can’t stop. It’s everywhere, but it’s great, man. We love it. It’s fun, it’s fun to be in that community.
– You know, and I think, I think that’s a good tip just for anybody who’s getting into this. I mean, that’s a mistake that I made big time early on when I started is I did not network in the community and you just, you don’t have either so much resources out there.
– Yeah. You know, it’s a, it’s interesting. You bring up a, a good point. I had one at one of our clients today. They’re, they’re like an exclusive reseller of a product. And so they, you know, when they started they basically like jumped on these listings, essentially. They got exclusive and now they wanna start also their own brand. And like, you know, he asked me if he could do like you know, a call with me, we managed their ads. He asked me if he could do a call with me to, to like how can you learn more about Amazon? You know, what can we do, you know? And I kind of walked him through an hour. I’m like, you know, here are the Facebook groups and here are these podcasts and here’s this. And then I’m like and then there’s, you know, different paid stuff but just like start plugging into this, go join. You know, here’s some of the biggest, you know Facebook groups go listen to these podcasts obviously the Sellozo one, you know Yeah. That’s right.
– But like there’s so much free, free stuff like plug into it. And then, you know I would say in a non COVID world, you know go to a couple of conferences a year and meet people and network it’s the best, you know, there isn’t I think one path that’s like how to learn Amazon. I think it’s like, if you, if you start if you start learning some of this stuff and spend, you know, a couple of hours a week just putting into learning, you know, in six months I think you’ll go from being, you know newbie to like, you know, my daughter in Minecraft says there’s newbie, pro, master and then like goddess, right? She says, you know, you, you know you can really go from a newbie to like a master, you know in three to six months, if you, if you really like plug in and to me, that’s the best way. There isn’t a textbook, you know, it’s the best way to learn. And by doing it too, you know?
– Yeah. You make a good point, Dustin and I talk to sellers every day and they come in and they’re like, how do I do this? How do I get started? And the first thing I say is that you got to go consume some knowledge because when Dustin and I started we were just learning on the fly. There was no Facebook groups. Man we talking of 2014 here. And you had to learn on your own and kind of just throw something out there. And if it stuck and did great, if not, you know, you had, you had to adjust. So, you know, joining like a mastermind or joining some type of training or just consuming knowledge and just trying, like, that’s how you’re gonna learn and get into space and get further along. If you just sit back on the sidelines and just kind of put your feet in every now and then you’re gonna get passed up so you can make a good point. You’ve got to get in there.
– Yeah. And you gotta take any, I mean, you gotta you have to sort of balance out like there’s people that will sit and study for a year before they take action to, right? That’s also not good. You know, somebody messaged me after actually from that Clubhouse stop. They messaged me on Instagram yesterday and they said, “Hey, I’m considering,” I don’t wanna say the name of the program. I think it’s a scam. But it’s that I’m considering buying this like done for you Amazon thing, you know, there’s like there’s so much stuff out there and I’m not sure I don’t, I don’t wanna make a mistake, and I’m like, no your mistake would be being scammed by this done for you program cause there’s no done for you. And by the way, I don’t know any seven or eight figure sellers that are done for you, businesses none of them are done for you. They all did it themselves, you know? And you know, you gotta really just like take action. And you know, if you wanna, that it’s the best way to learn, you know is by learning and also like modeling other people. You know, one of the things on yesterday’s Clubhouse that, that, you know, Ryan, Ryan said was, you know, success leaves clues, right? So you also wanna talk to other smart people that have already done it. So you don’t, you don’t make the same mistakes but you have to actually do it and make some mistakes along the way in order to, you know, in order to learn.
– Those, those automation things that you’re talking about those are popping up like crazy. And people are looking for a shortcut and they’re like I wanna get in this Amazon FBA but I’m not willing to put in the time. I just want, I wanna pay up front and then see if I can make millions.
– Not gonna work that way.
– It’s the shortest cut to losing your money. You know, if you wanna, if you want to if you don’t understand the space and you wanna try to capitalize of it, you know I saw it in Neval. I follow Neval, right? And he’s brilliant. He’s also in Clubhouse.
– He’s a great fellow. and, and he puts something out last week. Like something like, if you can’t a, if you can’t build it if you can’t build it, fund it, you know if you can’t fund it, like support it or something, right. Like there’s kind of like levels, right. So if you can’t build Amazon Business, okay, well that’s where you have, you know, these funds, you know coming in and buying businesses that are already successful and then, you know, hiring and building out the pieces that operate them. But you know, to me if you don’t want to build a business, then you go buy one. But to just pay someone 25,000, who says, they’re gonna just like done for you. I mean, they would do it for themselves. If they really knew how to, how to do a done for you and didn’t wanna spend any other money.
– Exactly, and what if it was amazing, even if it was the best thing ever by a month later, whatever they had done it’s going to be a whole different ball game at that point. There’s gonna be new competitors, new Ad things you can do. I mean, just the landscape changes like crazy. And that’s why, I mean, I feel like since Kris and I started this podcast, just personally as a seller from talking to people, being in this community it’s just, my knowledge has, it really expanded.. And thing I didn’t know I could do, I’ve been able to do. I think that that’s, I think a big part of like the e-commerce Mindset. Like you’ve gotta be willing to be in there and, and yeah. At work, find things to do, so.
– I think you have to, you know, part of the mindset is like, realize you don’t know everything. You’ll never know everything to some extent and you need to learn, learn from other people. And especially, this is like the only thing constant about Amazon is change, right? Like, you know, you need to understand that the landscape is always changing and that, you know you need to adapt with it, you know, and, and learn continuously. And that’s sometimes you’re gonna try stuff. It’s not gonna work. It’s just part of it.
– Oh yeah,
– Dustin and I, Dustin and I talk about that all the time we’ve talked about on the last podcast was your ego. Like a lot of people think, oh, I got this figured out. That’s the first mistake, you make that mistake, you, you’re gonna be passed up. So a lot of times, and we may not even know it. Like, you may think, you know everything about this space and you may think you know how to launch a product and product research and keyword research, but your ego is what’s holding you back. And when you drop that down and get rid of that you’ll start to like learn more in and soak more in. And I think a lot of people don’t realize that when, when they don’t join a mastermind group where they shut people out and they stop listening to stuff, it’s, it’s their own fault.
– Absolutely. Yeah. I think that’s a, I think isn’t there a book. I haven’t read it, but the ego is the enemy, right? Like,
– Yeah, I, you know, you talked to a guy like Steve Simonson who’s been in this space, who’s been an entrepreneur and been in e-commerce many, many years. And the first thing he’ll tell you is I don’t know nothing about nothing, right? When he comes in, right? And like, and I think there’s a certain philosophy of even like, when you go to a conference or when you, when you listen to a podcast like this, you come into that room, assuming, you know nothing because you’re gonna come into the room, wanting to receive something and learn from it, as opposed to, like I know everything, I, I don’t, I don’t need this, you know? And like, that’s kind of, I think part of the, the secret to learning is like, assuming you don’t know anything and kind of soaking, soaking up the information
– A, a 100%, yeah. You’re, you’re exactly right. Well, let’s pivot here and let’s dive in to the story of Liran, let’s– . Real quick we’ll just sort of just go through a real brief, how you got–
– It was 19 and, it all started in 1981 Dustin.
– Nice, nice, yes. That’s fine. Well, then you’re younger than me cause mine started in 1980.
– Oh, there you go, yeah. . I’m turning 40 in a month.
– Welcome to the club.
– Thank you.
– It’s a good club. Now so what’s so, talk about how you got into e-commerce and the Amazon space?
– Yeah. You know, so I would say, you know, my, my background like where I started my career actually going not too far from 1981, like when I was a kid. My dad had a good friend who was a day trader and sometimes on days off from school and stuff I would go and sit next to him. And he was on his computer. It was like the 90s, you know. So the, the market was booming and he would buy, you know. He would spend, he would buy a stock at $50. He would buy a thousand shares $50,000. And at 51, he would sell it and make a thousand bucks. And he was watching CNBC. And at the time he would call the broker, you know to place it through, there wasn’t like internet, you know, trading. And it was like, fascinating, right? And I wanted to be, I wanted to be a broker. I wanted to be in, in financial services, stocks. It’s really what I wanted to do. And when I was in college I got an internship with Citicorp Investment Services. And I went on to be a financial advisor but I was always looking at it kind of like, I don’t know, I, I guess, I had an entrepreneurial spirit and wanted to like have a side hustle. And I, I was studying internet marketing always, right. I was on the, for those that remember like the warrior forum and the flipping domains and doing affiliate marketing just learning, learning, learning, I didn’t know at the time that a lot of those things were a lot of those sort of failures, or learnings were kind of like the seeds of learning internet marketing and learning some of the concepts there. In 2010, I started, I, I was a financial advisor and I said, okay I’m going on my own. And I think there’s a better way to find clients, right. At the time I was going to networking events and chasing people in a sense. And I’m like, I know what the internet can get people to come to me. And so I started an insurance agency online and built an insurance business where yeah, I had the SEO and written articles and drove traffic. And did YouTube, if you search my name on YouTube you’ll find videos from 2000, you know, 13, 2014, and me talking about life insurance. And that’s how I drove traffic, especially because in that space, paid traffic was too expensive. You know, at the time, I don’t know what it is today. You pay $20 a click for like insurance-based keywords because you’re up against MetLife and, and big companies. So I, I had affinity and sort of started to really get good at internet marketing. And in 2014, I saw a Facebook Ad for a course called Drop Ship Lifestyle which still exists today and taught you how to build a Shopify site and essentially not drop ship from China but go to like companies in the US that are probably making their products in China and seeing if they’ll drop ship to the customer. And I built, built a website it started to do well. That was at the end of 2014. Then I found out about this thing called Amazon FBA. I started to do arbitrage. I started to build that up. Meanwhile, I had commissions coming in from insurance on past sort of stuff that you did, right. So I had cashflow coming in. I outsourced my entire insurance business to a friend of mine in that industry. We split commissions 50/50, and I just focused on Amazon while I, while I had that income coming in. I could take, could take money and reinvest it. And I started out really with arbitrage and, you know I learned at the time from people like Chris Green on the, on the arbitrage side. And then I learned from Andy Slomin’s on the private label side and really started to like learn, and, you know really devour as much content, you know as I could building my own private label business on Amazon which led to, you know, partnering with Andy and having trainings and courses and led me to, you know, running an agency today.
– That’s quite, that’s a story. I love that. And so essentially we, we all, seems like kind of got into the FBA space right around the exact same time, right around that 2014. And man, is it a totally different world now than it was then. And, and it was a different world then than it was two years before that.
– I, I like to think of, you know I like to think of like the, the, the sellers that got in from like 2012 to 2015, 2016 is like kind of a golden era a window of opportunity that you can get in. You can start a private label brand. You didn’t need to be a super expert. You didn’t need to have amazing listings, and stuff would just sell.
– But what I see that’s happened because of COVID and 2020 is there’s a new window of opportunity. That seems to be the case because the, of sellers, again that are getting in that are having a lot of success that are fairly new and having success with products that, you know, in 2018 I would tell you don’t launch this product but products that I’ve seen people launch in 2020 that have had, you know really good success with just because there’s so much demand that you could launch products have great listings and, you know, and compete. And so I see right now is sort of this new window that’s opened up, you know within the last year of a lot of people that are coming into the space that are gonna, you know in three or four years gonna exit these businesses for, for millions of dollars, kind of like the same wave of people that got in, you know, the same time we did.
– Yeah. Back then, back then, and back 2013, we were just we didn’t think about brands back then, we were just I’m gonna sell this product. I’m gonna launch it. And then I’m gonna sell this product. I’m gonna launch that. I’m starting to see, and you can correct me if I’m wrong but I’m starting to see a transition of branding coming back around, like even Amazon is kind of changing their attitude a little bit and saying like, “Hey, we wanna support these brands.” What are you seeing?
– Yeah, 100%, I mean, to some extent, Amazon killed the brand. And to some extent, they’re trying, they’re embracing it back, right? Because Amazon took this thing where, you know, you, you went to a Walmart and you saw five brands selling a product and now you don’t, you don’t sort of shop that way. You shop by keyword. And because of the reviews and the social proof and price you didn’t care anymore about who the brand was behind it and sort of they, and to some extent they killed the brand on another side of it. Now they’re starting to bring it back by adding more tools towards brands, for example something that’s gonna come up. I think soon with Amazon is people, you know now they can follow your storefront, they can follow your posts. You’ll be able to actually send campaigns there’s gonna be something called the campaign manager where you’ll be able to send those customers coupons and offers and maybe notices about lightening deals and things like that, right. They’re gonna allow you to do some sort of marketing to those customers but they’re gonna allow the customers to have a high level of control, you know, on them opting in instead of, you know, the other way around. So does the brand storefront, you know, these, these big blocks that are showing up on some brands sort of randomly that are showing big pages from, from storefronts like all these things that Amazon is showing that they’re trying to really embrace brands and more and more brands, you know, I’ve seen kind of studies more and more brands that have rejected Amazon for the last few years, because like, hey, I don’t wanna put my product on Amazon. Like, you know, if it gets bad reviews, it’ll affect my D2C. Or I don’t, I don’t want to have to lower my price from my demonizing margins. I may come D2C, you know a lot of brands are now saying, you know what, I, I kinda I have to, I have to be on Amazon because I’m losing so much by not being there. So definitely I think COVID also accelerated that shift into more bigger brands of racing. Amazon, you see Amazon launching even, you know, last year like Amazon luxury, right? Again, like collaborations with big players that I think like a Louis Vuitton that five years ago just said like, Oh Amazon is way below us, you know, to be on that platform then you’re going to start seeing those on like Amazon luxury and stuff. So it seems like Amazon won in a sense, like they they forced these brands to kind of have to be there unless you’re a big, like a Nike who can say, you know what we want a better customer experience. We don’t wanna be there, but there’s very few Nike’s out there that can kind of avoid it.
– And you’re seeing it on the search result pages too. Like when you go to Amazon you type in something it’s it’s at, at, at, at, at and then there’s video Ads. And then when you go to a brand’s page they’re even doing more on the page with like brand story. And then you can tell your brand identity and and you’re getting enhanced brand content. I had something in my account that said it was a survey. Amazon does, you know, those all sorts of questionnaires. And Amazon allows me to communicate with my customers. I’m like, Oh my gosh, that’s a definite no
– Where’s that, where’s the F you on the surveys Amazon supports me as a seller. You know, like, know who comes up with these questions most of the time, like, it’s, you know somebody has Amazon having a good time. You know, I’m sure the feedback on a lot of that stuff is poor. But I imagine that over the last few years maybe some of that stuff has improved and they’ve made some improvements there, right? They used to suspend you right away. Now they give you a little bit of a notice. Like, you know, I feel like they are, they are trying to make some, some improvements there, but you know, to, to some I posted on Facebook, you know to some Amazon is still like, to some extent you should also be building out your own audience your own D2C site and all that and not rely, you know, on Amazon. I posted on my Facebook wall, a video, this company called the Everyday Sling made Amazon Basics, just basically knocked off their product and they made it they made a video and they basically said like, you know you can, you can buy their Everyday Sling or here’s an alternative to Amazon Basics. If you want a product that isn’t made sustainably that doesn’t have the big corporation that didn’t invest you know, hours of time and into researching and design and development of a product like, you know, and they’re and they’re kind of showing the Amazon Basics team like taking a product image, putting a stencil over it and like drawing it out and being like, put it into production. You know. So like Amazon, to some extent, you know, people do see it as like the enemy to, to some extent which which you should be building out your own audience. And I think the same thing about success on Amazon in 2020 I’ve seen more people have success on Shopify than ever before, also in have success, you know with Facebook Ads to Shopify. So, you know, if you have a million dollar Amazon Business at that point, if you should start thinking about, okay I should start taking some of these profits and investing it into building out my own, my one thing.
– For sure. And yeah, and I think the diversification is the is the key, I mean in anything you don’t want all of your eggs in one basket cause anything can happen obviously but to the same point avoiding Amazon is equally as horrible of a strategy.
– Definitely, definitely.
– And it’s growing and you mentioned the opportunity and what’s happening. I mean, the amount of shoppers on Amazon, you know worldwide, since this pandemic started, has just gone up. I don’t know what the number is, but it’s gone up an enormous amount. So I mean, that pie is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And I think that’s why you see a lot of things that were, that were competitive now. I mean, there was more somebody who’s more shoppers now. I mean, it’s–
– You can now get into those spaces. So I think it’s interesting. And it’s gonna be really interesting to see where Amazon goes from here. I mean, I mean, it’s gonna–
– Well, yeah. You know, Amazon just bought a company, I think called Selz in, based out of Australia, that’s a D2C kind of like platform with app integration, you know, almost like a a much smaller version of, of what Shopify is. So, you know it’ll be interesting to see what they do with that, right? Like me, you know, imagine a, I mean will you wanna have your D2C on, on Amazon’s platform, different story? I don’t know, but, you know imagine all the reviews just importing by themselves onto your Shopify, you know, or Selz, right like D2C store, direct fulfillment from FBA with two day delivery. You know, some of these like Amazon features that, that will be brought into this. So, you know, I do, I think Amazon is realizing they, they need to get into that, that space. And that will be interesting as well. I definitely think more opportunities around building a brand storefront as well as just more influencer opportunities. Amazon Live seems to be getting a little bit more traction, influence ages are getting more traction you know, whether or not Amazon will ever be successful with their own sort of social platform I think is yet to be seen. They, they, they had a program called Spark a couple of years back for those that remember you can go into the Amazon app and click and see kind of like what the Amazon posts are now and it was called Spark and that kind of failed. So I think they would like to be sort of a not just a search based platform but a discovery based platform. And according to studies, millennials like to kind of shop by discovery, not just by, you know, keyword searches. So it’d be interesting to see, you know will Amazon Live, just show up, show up in, you know in the search results, right? Like how, how much of this stuff is, you know, is, is is added in right now, Amazon Live shows up on product pages during the Live, right? Will it show up there after the Live, like how how much more do they integrate influencer marketing for and, you know, and sort of like a social shopping experience will be interesting.
– And that’s why as a owner of a e-commerce platform, they’re like, well it’s like us, you’ve got to stay on top of this. I mean, this is this is why there’s no set it and forget it. I mean, like you mentioned, Amazon Live that’s something that I’m not putting enough energy into yet. I need to, you know, cause it’s gonna be you’re right. It’s gonna be sort of the next thing and to see how they integrate it with influencers it’s gonna be really, really fascinating.
– Yeah, absolutely. And you know, like, like you said, staying on top of stuff if for those that are watching, you know it’d be interesting if people even wanna comment like who jumped on Amazon Video as when it first came out, right? Sponsored brand videos, if you jumped at in when it came out you’ve remembered the days now it’s not even allowed anymore, but you can get 10 cent clicks right. Now Amazon raised the minimum click, to 25 cents. You’re not even allowed to get it but we were getting 10 cent clicks on video ads. If you jumped on it early, you were getting inventory for the same keywords that people were paying $4 for it to be at the top of the page to have this huge prominent spot and paid less than a dollar, right. Amazing opportunity. But if you hear about it a year later, you know you missed out on that opportunity to jump on something new. And I think that’s your advantage. And staying tuned into podcasts like this and like the community is, is is that Proctor and Gamble, doesn’t jump on those things. Proctor and gamble example takes six months in their legal department before they can approve the video, right? You know, you can go in and as a small seller you can jump on those opportunities. And that’s your advantage against, you know that’s your advantage against those huge companies. It’s also your advantage against, you know if your competition is like a Thrasio, you know, you’re competing against an employer at Thrasio essentially, right? They have systems and a team but you’re the entrepreneur that’s, you know, not sleeping. And I may be thinking about when you’re gonna have video Ads on, while maybe you’re competing on somebody else who goes home at 5:00 PM, you know and is working a little bit differently. So I still think the entrepreneur has a lot of advantages and staying clued in and being able to move fast is really important on Amazon.
– No doubt. I remember when Vendor Express was a little loophole to get to that headline Ad. And that will, like when I found that out I may have found it out on a day and P and podcasts, honestly, probably. But, but when I found that out I implemented that right away. I put all my products in a headline Ad and that thing just melt money for me. Like I was just getting cash after cash. And then I found out about these video Ads. That was another thing I’m like, I got to do this. And it was just a bad, bad video but it converted like crazy. Cause it was something new. So that’s where like being a part of like brand registry that’s gonna give you access to this kind of stuff when they roll out new app and once a day, I mean, Amazon, when they roll out stuff for brands, we’re gonna be the first to get it before everyone else gets it.
– Right. Absolutely.
– Let’s, let’s take a look at it for this, from the perspective of if you were starting today as an Amazon seller, okay. Cause there’s a lot of guys that listen to us that are probably looking to get into the Amazon world. And you’d mentioned this earlier and this is exactly there’s something that I did too. I believe Kris did as well is when we went on my first deal was arbitrage. I just went to Walmart. I went to, you know, Big Lots. I would try to find some things that I could sell on Amazon to make a little bit of profit didn’t even care. Really. I wanted to figure out how it worked. Would, would you still, would that be, I mean I feel like that’s a great way to start so you can learn just learning what, like FBA how that all functions like shipping stuff and labels, all that.
– Yeah. It definitely, I definitely think it’s a it’s a good way to learn also, you know the private label process, it’ll take you three months before you have, you know, at least probably before you have a product live right around there in that process. Yeah. One try to make some money off of Amazon and if you have an opportunity. And two, yeah, I feel I feel like I had such an advantage over new private label sellers that were coming in when I started private label. Now on the one hand, on the one hand I wish I would have started in one sense. I wish I would’ve started straight with private label. Right. I missed a year sort of until I launched my product. Cause I didn’t even know about private label and I was just doing this arbitrage thing. On the other hand, I had so much existing knowledge. I understood Keepa and I understood bestseller rank and I understood the buy box and you know people making the jump on. I just, I understood like looking at the data on Amazon because all I was relying on is like BSR and like what can that drive in terms of sales? And that, that gave me an understanding that when I went to private label, I could really assess the competition and see like, you know, is this a product that would you know, wanna, wanna launch? So I think it is a great way to get your feet wet with Amazon and look to be, you know there’s still people making a lot of money on arbitrage and online arbitrage. We have, we have a, a company we manage Ads for and they have, they have private label, they have wholesale and they have, they have teams like across the country of shoppers that go out. They’re able to scale basically arbitrage. And that alone is, you know, a seven figure plus I think maybe close to $10 million business of just arbitrage, but they have teams that, you know go out, they have a plan, they have systems, right? So it’s not just one person but they’ve taken this arbitrage, which you know is very times tough to scale beyond a million dollars because you’re like you have to go to stores and buy the products look at the inventory to be something that’s scalable. So there’s definitely ways to make money there and you can learn in Amazon. So I still think it’s a great way to learn if I was starting out today, if I was starting out today, I would go out. I would take, you know, $25,000 and I would go out and launch three or four products. I would learn a lot. And then I would double down on on the one or two that really I saw traction with because that’s likely what’s gonna happen. You’ll launch four products, one or two of them will have some nice traction, hopefully. Maybe the others are slower and then we’ll just double down on those two products, you know, I would see like, you know. How, what’s the maximum amount that people are selling at, you know, 200 reviews. What’s the maximum on that? They’re selling at 500 reviews. And I would say, how much can I push, and push, and push until I can get this product to 500 reviews until I can get this product to 1000 reviews. And again, I think when you launch a product, if you launched the right product and I would spend a lot of times on the, on a lot of time on the product research part, I would spend a lot of time on reading positive and negative reviews on my competition. I would make a detailed list of all the things I would want in a product. How I would change something? How I would improve it? I would talk to suppliers. I would get samples. I would spend a lot of my effort there because it’s a lot of the product selection that will make your success you know, on this Clubhouse talk yesterday we spoke about how, you know, I helped, I helped these guys launch, launch a product and it went from zero to two million in sales in three months, right? And now you could say that a lot of it is due to like, you know, the marketing side running the Ad side, the listing, the optimization. But if they chose a bad product there’s no way would have done that, right? And like choosing to me the, you know even if I was out of that picture they still would have had success with it, right? Maybe not the same level, maybe yes, maybe not. You can make the argument. They still would have had success because they chose they started off with the right product. They differentiated something they read all the negative reviews and I would spend a lot of time on the product selection component. Also understanding that as good as you can be in product selection, it’s not a perfect process. And that’s why I would launch a few different products. And then again, I would look at these products that did well and I would say, okay, can I add variations here? Can I double down on these products? How do I drive more sales? How do I spend some money on rebates? And, and you knowing that if I give away a 1000 units Um could probably get, you know, a 100 reviews out of that, just when people leaving reviews and trying to push, and push, and push being be aggressive and double down, add variations, and then go to my next set of, you know, three or four products. And I think you could build up, you know a million dollar business in a year or less if you, if you really follow that, follow that model. But I would spend, I would sort of over index the time I spent on the product selection part, because to me if you have, if you launch a product and the first two, three months, it’s a struggle to get five to 10 sales a day you gotta dump that product and you can launch a new product and like your suddenly, suddenly selling 10, 10 units a day without a tremendous effort. You know, that’s where I would like, that’s where I would focus
– And to take a step further something that’s really hot now is selling is getting out of this and signed for multiples. That’s, that’s a huge topic. I mean, we’re seeing people raise a bunch of millions of capital. You, you could just do it layer under said and then you could literally flip it and just sell it and take out a big payout just, just after you’ve done that. So what are you seeing in that space? Are people just launching and really flipping into cycling, back and forth?
– Yeah, I mean a lot of, a lot of people that I know, I have a friend who sold his business for seven figures last year. He had another brand in mind that he wanted to do and almost immediately got started working, working on that, that new brand. And the reality is that, you know, if you sell for a million dollars, it’s likely, and you’re young it’s likely not enough after you pay, you know, I dunno 40% of that 40% of that, whatever it is to, to the government. And you wanna put some money away for the future it’s not enough to just go sit, right. And, but you can go and double down on everything you’ve learned along the first, the, you know, the first trip around then and the exit to do it a lot better. And some of these companies that are acquiring brands are having now people come to them with their second brand, they sold one to them and they’re coming back with their, with their second one. So yeah, to me it would make sense to just go, you know, do it again unless you sold for enough money where, you know, you, you don’t necessarily want to, or have to do that or you, you can now go be and be an investor, you know, and, you know fund other, fund other sellers, help them grow, you know and kind of do something a little bit different, but yeah. I mean the valuations are getting better and better. I think relatively speaking in the world of valuations, they’re still low. And that’s why there’s so much money coming in because like two to three X which now they’re kind of moving beyond that. But think about, you know, buying a business for two X. And if you can, you know, with enough predictability say like there’s less, there’s kind of low risk that it’s not gonna continue to sell at least like in two years, you’ll recover everything that you put into, you put into that business and everything else from there is upside. And if you grow it and since e-commerce is growing and Amazon is burning, it’s naturally gonna grow it’s kind of like a steal, right?
– So that’s why you have, you know billions of dollars pouring into the space. Because I think the sellers that started in 2012 to 2015 kind of proved that this model works. And I think big money always waits until little money proofs, prove something. And then they come in and they want to do it at scale. And that’s kind of what’s happening, right? The small scrappy entrepreneur has proven that this private label model and selling an Amazon works and now, and, and at the same time I think it’s a perfect storm where, you know interest rates are very low. So like you can’t really keep money in the bank or in bonds or whatever, right. And it’s not giving you a return. The investors need to put money somewhere. And where’s the, you know we’re seeing the most growth right now in in a COVID world is like every, anything digital you know, and, and e-commerce is, is a great place to be. So I think definitely COVID has accelerated the amount of money that, that come in. A lot of this sort of capital raising started when Thrasio last year I saw it because I had a lot of people reaching out to me to have conversations who wanted to start these kinds of businesses and who started them. There was an article in March or April last year, Thrasio gets one billion valuation raises money, right? And I think that just lit a fire under a lot of, you know, investors people who had kind of been thinking about something like this and said like, okay, it’s time. It’s time to hit, go and together with COVID. It just like was the perfect storm, you know, of, you know funds that being the case. I think it’s a great opportunity for sellers who have a lot of their net worth in their business to take some chips off the table and try to do it again. You know, I don’t think there’s anything bad in going in selling your, you know, for three or four X multiple because you probably just go do it again. And, you know, you’re essentially also, de-risking like, again if you have a business that’s worth $two, three million and you know, 80, 90% of your net worth is there. You have a lot of risk in your Amazon Business too. So I totally understand and make sense on why, why a seller would wanna sell and, you know, and cash out.
– It’s really interesting right now, cause I can assure you that when I started in 2014, an exit plan was nowhere in my mind, I was creating a side hustle. I thought I was gonna be, I was I was looking to make extra income and then it started, you know, it starts working in need. So I think people now, like if, you know, some like us we would go in with the, with the exit in mind definitely. And build everything that like makes you got all your ducks in a row, make sure all of your legal work’s done in a year know you’ve got accountants working everything’s clean and it’s you’re positioning it. So it’s a sellable asset.
– Definitely, definitely. So I mean, definitely I think, you know you should take this seriously. You should start out with, you know, an LLC or or whatever structure you should be. You should start out with good bookkeeping and QuickBooks. And, you know, I mean, we have, you know we have a bookkeeper who’s in the Philippines who does amazing, right. It doesn’t need to be expensive, but we have, you know we make sure we have our books, right. So that, you know, when people wanna look at it besides ourselves and understanding your numbers you should also have a good understanding of your numbers too and take it seriously, you know. Yeah. Starting out the right way makes sense. And I think sort of as a separate like mindset of also how you look at your business, how you make decisions, I think sometimes putting off your seller hat and putting on your investor hat what would in asking yourself in a particular situation like, you know, I think a lot of sellers face these issues of, should I go to Shopify now or should I launch more products on Amazon? Or should I go international? What should I do sometimes putting on your, well, what if I wasn’t an investor in this company? What would I advise them to do? We’ll get you to think about it, you know a little bit differently because honestly and I heard, you know, Casey, we did a we did a talk with Rachio on, on Monday on Clubhouse. And one of the things Casey said, well, you know if you have, if you build five products that got you to a million dollar business the next best thing to do would go to 10 products and go to a $2 million business, right. It’s not necessarily going to Europe now, you know or going to Shopify now, maybe the next best thing is just repeating what you’ve already done. And maybe that’s what an investor would tell you. But I think sellers sometimes have shiny object syndrome and entrepreneurial ADD, you know you just wanna grab all the, all the opportunity you can at once. And it’s not always possible.
– That’s absolutely right, man. I it’s so fun talking about this. I mean, we talk about every day but I just get excited about e-commerce in the Amazon space.
– It’s fun. It’s, it’s totally, it’s a great business model to, for life. I mean, it’s just, it’s really, it’s really fascinating but I know that, you know, we’ve taken up a lot of your time and we, we love having you on, this has been absolutely amazing. Real quick, if anybody wants to get in touch with you, or work with you with Incrementum Digital, how can they, how can they get in touch with you then?
– Sure. So we have a form on our website, incrementumdigital.com. We’re actually redoing the site. So hopefully it will look better in around a month or so, or you can send me, you can send me a DM, you know, on Facebook or my email is liran@incrementumdigital. You can reach out, I post a lot of content related to Amazon so you can follow my Facebook wall or the e-commerce mindset group or podcast, you know kinda stay plugged in with, with some of the things that are changing. If you’re on Clubhouse there’s a club called Amazon sellers club. You can join too. And you’ll get pinged when we do these kinds of like rooms with you know, with, with some other people that are, that are out there, I try to record them if possible and then put them up on the podcast. So, you know, if there’s 20 people in a room I can repurpose it and get it, you know get it out to hundreds of people that can, you know that can listen to it, so.
– If you’re, if you guys are, that are listening are not in Clubhouse right now. You need to be, I mean and if you need invites, I’ve got a couple of invites so message me and–
– It’s ridiculous. it’s so good.
– It’s such a fun platform and everyone’s in there. It’s just great casual conversations people giving a great advice. You know, what you’re doing is fantastic. It’s just a great community for sure. So everyone you’ve got to go in there and follow.
– Yeah, it’s amazing. I mean like people like Neval or like people you can’t get on, you know, I mean there’s an interview with Bill Gates last week, right? Like there’s, you know, if you’re into crypto you’ll have the founders of, you know, Coinbase and like just like, if you’re into like probably what a lot of us are into like tech, you know, entrepreneurship mindset you know, leveling up in, in your life. Like, there’s just a lot of quality content and people that, you know, you know that you couldn’t e, e, when I first joined the first week I think I had like a VC, a guy from a VC and like the rapper soldier boy in a room together talking right. Like, where can you, where can you get that? You know, and have those conversations. And then you learn that soldier boy he’s not just a rapper, but he’s an investor in like all these companies in behind the scenes and stuff. Like, it’s pretty, it’s a, it’s pretty cool. So I really love the love of the platform. And, you know, I don’t have to do hair and makeup, you know before you get on there. So it’s, it’s nice also, but yeah I really appreciate you guys. You know, having me, having me on the the podcast and what you guys are doing, you know pumping out episodes here, here as well.
– Well, we appreciate it. And thanks so much. We’ll have to get you back on sometime in the future we can dive into a bunch of specific topics. That’ll be good value for everybody, but amazing. Thanks for the time everyone listening. If you liked this content, if you wanna hear people like Liran, come on and talk with us. Please subscribe to our podcast. You can find us on every platform that podcast exists. You can follow us there and leave us a review. You can also see our live streams on Facebook on the Sellozo page, on Facebook. The Sellozo channel on YouTube. Subscribe to those as well, click the notification. So you get notifications when we go live. So you can see content like this at all times. We will be back at this again Monday and Liran thanks so much for coming on. It’s been a blast.
– Thanks. Super fun. Thanks for having me on.