Learn more about Amazon PPC Services and get some great tips for beginners.
Kris Gramlich and Dustin Kane are chatting with Elizabeth Greene from Junglr.
Junglr is an Amazon advertising agency dedicated to just that, Amazon PPC. It’s what they do and LOVE! Their focus is on developing client-specific strategies that get results.
Find out more: https://www.junglr.com.
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– Hello everyone, and welcome to episode 95 of Two Amazon Sellers and a Microphone, brought to you by Sellozo, today Kris and I are very excited, we have Elizabeth Greene from Junglr on with us, Elizabeth, how are you doing?
– I’m doing good, I’m doing good. 95, that’s a lot, that’s a lot.
– I know, right.
– We never thought we would get there. We didn’t, we struggled to get one, but once we did, and you start going it just, it’s been a lot of fun. So yeah, 95, it’s hard to believe. We didn’t start that long ago, but I’ll tell you what’s been a blast is talking to people all over the Amazon space, like you, it’s just, it’s really fun. It’s been good for Kris and I personally with our own businesses, and just, it’s fun to talk to people and see what’s going on. So we are pumped to talk to you. We’ll talk all about Amazon advertising, some different strategies people can employ, but before we dive into all that, let’s talk about you, give us a little background on just how you got into the space, what you’re doing, tell us about Junglr, give us the
– Yeah, yeah, so background on me is pretty short. I fell into this space, didn’t intend to, didn’t intend to end up here, but yeah, just started getting into the advertising, and then found out weirdly enough I really liked spreadsheets, which is very helpful in my line of work. So I just kind of dove head into that, and then here we are, growing like crazy, and it’s been a good ride. Yeah, so delving into the Amazon space, I’d say, it’s not that I was completely unaware of the Amazon space, my husband and I actually, so we co-founded the business together. He is the business brains and I’m the PPC brains. And we work well, so it’s been really good, but so we doubled, of course, I think everyone gets into it through retail arbitrage, just kind of all right let’s see what’s going down. And then you move on to private label a little bit, but as I’m sure you’re well aware there’s a lot that goes into running anything, especially with private labels. So life got in the way, we have quite a few kids, and so that just naturally wound down. My husband worked with his father-in-law, in a, my father-in-law’s a general contractor, so there’s plenty to do there, especially now the building is going crazy in Florida. And so it naturally wound down, however, we wanted something that would allow us to kind of stick together more as a family unit. And so this kind of birthed just out of a real need that came from a lot of the sellers, because Amazon’s adding you know, a whole bunch of options into their advertising platform, which is absolutely wonderful, but if you really wanna leverage everything it pretty much becomes a full-time job, which is where we come in, so we just stepped in and started offering that and it took off.
– Yeah, you’re 100% right, there is a huge need for people, I mean, especially now, that people are making the move more to online, they had a brick-and-Mortar store, and now that’s not the best option for them anymore after the pandemic and they’ve explored. This whole advertising space is complicated. It’s sometimes counterintuitive, just like the whole Amazon flywheel effect, and everything that you, that we’ll talk about a little more, it’s just sometimes counterintuitive to businesses, and they need this help so, what, when did you start Junglr? How long ago did you guys start this?
– So the business was officially founded, Glenn did the whole C corporation, all that, I’d say it was 2019, it’s been a couple of years now, so we’re going on, it’s been over two years, little over that. So yeah, as a company we’re relatively new to the space.
– Yeah, a lot’s changed like even over the last six months Amazon’s rolling out all kinds of new features. You either got sponsored brands, sponsored brand videos, sponsored display, if you’re targeting, DSP. There’s a whole bunch of stuff going on. What, when, when you guys first started, what was like your first plan of action? Just focus on sponsored product ads and get those figured out first and then move on to the other ones?
– Yeah, definitely, I think everyone starts with sponsored product ads. The benefit of the Amazon advertising platform, even though it’s like insane and people diving in, there’s six million and 10 different strategies out there. Everyone’s so worried about okay, what do I run? What do I do? How do I optimize? And it seems like this black box, but you still have the ability to start small. You can still set up a small auto campaign, low bids, low budget and let it run. That doesn’t mean it’s gonna blow you on the water and get you to page one like everyone wants, but you still have that ability. I mean technically speaking you can still do $1 a day budget on things, if that’s all you want. You’re not gonna get anywhere with a dollar a day budget, but if you’re worried about spending too much, there are still ways to ease into it, which is nice. Us as an agency, of course, that’s not how we would recommend running, starting a new one that small. So, yeah, we definitely eased into it. Sponsor products, I think, is where everyone should focus, even if you’re a very large seller. You still, obviously do not discount sponsor brands, sponsor displays, there’s some wonderful things on the platform you know. You wanna be using everything. We definitely leverage everything for all of our clients, but sponsored products is still a really good focus, especially when you’re trying to learn everything.
– I wanna get your opinion on something. Dustin and I had this kind . It’s about budget, like you just mentioned there, like a dollar budget. We don’t know, we can’t really prove it, but in your opinion do you think budget has something to do with the placement, or who’s winning the bid? Let’s say you and I have the same keyword we’re going after and we have very similar bids, but I have a $10 budget and you have $100 budget. We believe that it would be in Amazon’s best interest to give you the more show cause you have the higher budget. Are you seeing any of that correlation within your agency? Does budget have anything to do with it, or is it just a though?
– I would say, I would say no, but the caveat is like if, a lot of times people with lower budgets might see lower impressions and things and so you think oh, there’s a correlation there. I think bids and big budget being hefty enough to be able adequately run whatever you have in with that campaign with the keywords and the bids, to me, is more important. The reason I would say no is I’ve seen, so there’s this weird nuance where you cannot set your bid above your budget, like when you initially start a campaign, but what you can actually do, and I’ve seen done is you can have bids initially set very high with a higher budget, and then chop that budget and still retain those bids. I’ve still seen a campaign with a dollar budget with say $2 bids get placement, tops of search, and actually get decent sales and A cost and still maintain some momentum. I’m not, don’t take that strategy and roll with it. That was like inventory’s flying out the window, we have to cut things, and so we opted to do the dollar budget method, but I saw that effect. So, I mean it’s hard to say, but just being in a bunch of accounts, you see these weird correlations, my gut would say yeah, you don’t know, there could be, you never know, there’s weird nuances to the platform, but I’ve seen incidences like that, which lead me to believe it has to do more with allowing the budget to adequately run whatever keywords than just strictly looking at the budgets.
– I like what you said earlier, just talking about, cause I think this is, the people are always looking for some sort of holy grail with advertising. Like if you do X, Y, Z , you’re gonna get the results that you want, and it’s just not true. I mean every product’s different, every niche is different, and you’re talking about different strategies. All of us in this advertising space are constantly testing new things out all the time. And I think that’s really important for people to understand is like there is no ma, it’s all about testing for your product. You need to test, test, test, but there are some concepts I feel like. And I think this would be good, this is, I mean Kris and I, we talk to sellers all the time, they come on here doing demos about slogans, they’re talking advertising, and what should they do. And depending on their situation there’s different recommendations. So let’s see what your recommendation would be for these types of sellers. So somebody comes to you, they’re new, they’re launching their product, low reviews, et. Cetera, but everything else is fine, and they don’t have a huge budget. What, you can’t do everything, so what do you recommend for a seller like that?
– I would recommend picking your keyword targets wisely, understanding what your budget is, and then like kind of building out. Like that’s your starting point, how much do you have to spend? And then let’s build off of that. Because you know, I can go in, and do insanely good keyword research, here’s all your keywords, and the budget needed to run those is like $1,000 a day. If you run something like that, you’re only gonna get say maybe, two to three clicks on a wide slot of keywords. That’s not gonna give you enough data to do anything. You don’t wanna shut it down because these are kind of working, maybe they’re working, but you can end up spiraling, and then you kind of end up spinning your wheels and going nowhere. So I would recommend being very strategic. If you have to pick three keywords and run those three keywords, run those three keywords. And then I would also say don’t go after the top dogs. And it’s also, I would say, you want to analyze what are your costs per clicks in this space? A good way to look at that is to go in, it’s like a dummy campaign, you don’t even watch it, but you would go in, create a manual campaign, drop in your, whatever product you wanna advertise, drop in your keywords, and you can see them as on suggested. If you’re suggested bids, take those with a grain of salt, they’re all super advocate, but it does give you a benchmark. So if you have like $2 suggested bids on something, maybe you need to pick a handful of those and run those. Whatever keywords you pick, ideally you have enough budget to run those enough to get that data feedback. And then you can build off of that. And then I would say, if we’re running on really tight budgets, you can be more aggressive with your optimizations, because you only have so much you can play with. So, for instance, if I pick five keywords, one of my keywords gets like 20 clicks, maybe my A cost is insane, I’ve run it for, maybe, given enough time to really understand it, sometimes, and when I think time, I don’t necessarily go off of timeframes. I do like to say okay, the first two weeks just let everything run. But if in the first two weeks I get 100 clicks and no sales on one of those keywords, that is enough time for me to make a judgment call that that keyword just doesn’t work for my product. So it’s not always a timeframe. I’d say it’s more of how many clicks do you get on that keyword? And then if you get enough clicks within, you know give it at least, you know if you’re being conservative maybe three days, but honestly four days because there’s usually data delay, seven days if you can stomach it, but, yeah, I would say very much pick your keyword battles, see if something works. If you actually can determine something doesn’t work, because your budget is so tight, you can maybe just significantly lower the bids on that one, and then, okay, let’s add in those other keywords that we found, maybe we found 10, we’re running five, we chopped two, let’s add two more. You can be much more like strategic.
– In that campaign, I’m assuming it’s a manual exact match campaign, would that be right?
– Yeah, yeah, I do like running everything, so we’re in the test all match types crowd. The way we run it is we’ll test all the match ads. We definitely stagger our bids, just due to, phrase and broad consent more so we’re aware of that and adjust the bids accordingly. But if you’re dealing with tight budgets you could just run ad an exact just to see if it works. The caveat to that would be if you’re only running an exact you’re only seeing like if that exact keyword works sometimes when you’re running in phrase and broad you find you can, you can build off of that with your advertising, you know something gets changed a little bit. If keyword gets out in phrase or the one thing with broad is broad matches the only match site they’ll actually flip the order of words, so even in long tails, we’ll run broad match because oftentimes I’ve seen before where it’s like you have the keyword string and it’s like seven, you know, it’s like ridiculously long keyword and there’s very little search volume for it, of course. But because we put it in a broad match just two words got flipped and you know we got another long tail keyword you would have missed out of if you’re only running an exact match. So I do like running all, all the match types. However, you know, going back to very limited budgets you kind of have to pick your battles and see where you are and what you can do.
– I really liked the way you lay that out because I feel like the, one of the biggest problems is when someone’s launching the campaign for their product they have this like massive FOMO about all these words where they could be making sales and they’ll, they’ll do it. They’ll do some keyword research on Helium 10 or Jungle Scout and they’ll make this campaign with 500 targets. And then be disappointed when it’s not working well or their money is just being spent all over the place. And so, I mean, I think what you’re talking about is really, I mean it’s important for people to understand that you can laser focus if you have this small budget. So expanding on that if your budget starts to increase or you’re starting to get more organic sales now from this targeted approach, now you’ve got more money. You can allocate, allocate towards ads. Where do you go from there? Where do you go from this small targeted campaign? What are you adding now?
– I’m definitely looking into the search term reports. That’s kind of, it’s still going to be the OG the holy grail, the best way to get additional keywords reason been is you have actual data based on your products, what worked. And then the one caveat to that would, or not caveat but I would, I would tack on if you’re being if you want to clean everything you can from search reports you definitely want to make sure that you’re setting up your campaigns in a way that allows you to see what’s working for what products. Now in our agency we’re not afraid of grouping products with providing they’re part of the same listing. I know there’s different, you know if you want to get all the nuances of the pros and cons to each one, but you know, providing they’re going to the same place. Or there but if you, if you’re grouping like I throw all of your products on one campaign, you’re like, oh, they’re all a cup. Let’s just throw them all in there. And you know, one of them is the handle cup. One’s a purple well you don’t know which each product’s going to perform differently on each search page. So the tighter, you can keep that and the better you can understand how each product is doing on each of those searches, you’re going to be able to build on that with the search term report, much cleaner than you could if you’re just throwing everything in there. So yeah, I would say, start with the search term reports, you know, retarget those, take a look at what your cost per clicks are, you can take a look a with A cost was then you can build out on that. Yeah, I would say, and then of course, you know if you’re still running only an exact goal then maybe you should start building out. Maybe just take those keywords that were working and exact time in a phrase and broad match. You know, it depends on how much extra we have and how much we need to start slowly.
– Something I’ve noticed with talking about those variations and putting all the products together is if you take each fair I’ve seen this where you take each product and put it in its own ad group, or do you take all the products and put them in one ad group? What I’ve seen is when you put all the products in one ad group, only one product is going to show up. But if you take each and put it in its own ad group you have potential like the takeover, the all the page for page one for that specific keyword
– is there a certain strategy you like better out of those two?
– So the caveat to that is if they’re if they’re child variations you’re only ever going to get one ad spot, organic spot per search page, you can’t show up everywhere. So if it’s a variation, we take that into account. And if we have data, I like just putting our best foot forward. You know, if we’re selling a whole bunch of metal cups the black one works the best let’s advertise, you know the black ones specifically. And then of course, if they’re looking for a red cup, like, you know, someone’s searching red cup let’s give them a red cup, the closer you can get to what the consumer is actually looking for the better results you’re gonna see. But if we’re talking different listings definitely we’re gonna be splitting those out into their own campaigns, their own groupings because they’re gonna have, that’s how you take over a search page is making sure everything can show up.
– Cool, very interesting, I’ve got, I wanna go back because I’ve got a question I meant to ask earlier. This is, I feel like this comes up quite a bit at least in my mind, I have a theory about this and I want your input on it. If you’re getting ready to, like, you’re like we’re talking about getting ready to launch a product and you’re trying to make these targeted campaigns and you’re trying to pick five or six keywords. Let’s say you’re selling a dog leash. If you are, if you’re coming up with the keywords yourself to target, you know like dog leash or small dog leash or whatever, is that better or is it better just to run an auto campaign for like a week or two and just see what words actually convert to sales. So what Amazon showing you for, and then take those and start your campaign, your manual campaign with those. I mean, I just, I think this is a question a lot of people have and recommend is better.
– So I would prefer the manual approach because I’m you’re confident in what we do. And I think we’ve gotten really good at our keyword research, built out some systems that allows us to do it quickly and at scale, without sacrificing quality. So I would prefer going to manuals and I, we definitely run autos. However, the autos are not our main focus. So we would set those at lower bids. You just let them run, let them do their, you know, do their thing, the reason being is it also depends on the product. So if you have a product that maybe you’ve done some search by buys, or maybe you have some ranking you have, you know, it’s kind of sitting there maybe you haven’t run advertising. And you’re just, you’re really unsure where to go with this. Maybe you could start the autos. I’m not really a fan of high bid autos unless I’m very confident in the product. There are certain either strategies you can use with high bid autos, but I prefer to start those moderately. The reason I don’t prefer the autos is sometimes if there’s just not a lot of indexing on the product it’s a brand new product out of the gate. There’s Amazon, of course they comb your listings but it kinda takes them a little bit to figure out where you work in the marketplace. Then oftentimes just the quality of the keywords that come from the autos aren’t that great. So maybe you run it for a week and you might not even get anything out of that for a week. Where if you started with your manual campaigns you could have at least gained some traction. Now, if you were wanting to just ease into it you’re just really unsure. You know, you could start with the auto approach. We just find, we get a lot more traction on the gate. And then the other thing is it could be that the quality of keywords that are gotten are just so-so. And then the other thing I’ve seen happen a lot is that Amazon will determine like what the biggest and highest keyword is in the space. And we’ll just run you out that and your budget will get blown out day after day after day. And the A cost is insane because you just don’t convert well at that placement right now. And so you kind of end up spinning your wheels. And I’ve seen a lot of sellers who like when they see that they see in the search term, you know, you can go into your search terms see what’s getting on your clicks and they’re, well this is bringing me the most sales but my A cost is like over a hundred percent. And I don’t really want to kill it. Cause that’s where all the sales are coming from. When in reality, that’s just not something you should probably be throwing your money out right now. Definitely, you want to get there, but the maybe this filling out today. Where if you started with a more manual approach you really analyzing your keywords, you’re taking a look at the market and realizing, okay, so these are my top dogs but I don’t have the cash to throw at that right now, I’m gonna go after this subsection and then work my way upwards. I find that’s probably a better approach.
– Yeah, we get that a lot where someone’s one, excuse me someone’s wanting to target a cost of like 15% or 20%. And it’s like, that’s just really impossible almost on their own on these keywords because the keywords are just so competitive and the cost per clicks are so high there’s so much competition. What’s your response to that? Like when a seller comes to us, they’re like, hey we want to lower our A costs from 60 to 20. Well, what that does, is gonna kill everything Then all the bids are going to start getting lower. So we have that tough conversation sometimes like, hey you’re going to have to either like accept it and go after that keyword because you’re right. That’s where all the sales are going What’s your approach? Do you just go out for more long tail keywords? I think that’s what you mentioned there. Or do you just maybe put those on a separate campaign? What would be your strategy? If I have a keyword that I’m going after and has a high cost, what would be your strategy there?
– Yeah, yeah, I think it’s just analyzing what you’re willing to do because I think to be honest I think there’s a lot of sellers out there who think if you know how to run advertising, that is just going to be the magic bullet that you’re going to be able to get 20% of the costs on, you know the keyword metal cup when you’re new to the market. And you have two, you know, two reviews and they’re not even really reviews. They’re just, what’s the new thing, right?
– Right here ratings And so like, I’m not a magician, I wish I was. I wish I knew the secret source to you know, create these amazing campaigns. Like it, you like tiny cups now. There’s, there’s things you can do. There’s tactics, like you can run it at a high match exact and then play with your placement adjustments a little bit. There’s ways to tweak things, but to be honest, ranking is not, I’ve been asked that before, like how do you set up a ranking campaign there’s no secret source, exact match, high bids probably a top of search placement. And you’re just going to have to accept what that A cost is. And if you’re fine with that and our rankings improve, track your keywords if you’re spending on something, you should be tracking it. But you know, when you want to make sure that you can, you know, you can stomach that. So it it’s really just, it’s picking your battles deciding what’s worth it. Again, if you’re tracking your keywords you should be able to correlate if that’s worth it. You know, if you are spending a lot on this exact keyword, you know, your rankings are good you start dropping those bids a little bit because honestly that A cost is a little too hard to stomach. But then your ranking slips and your total sales on that, particularly singled out maybe you’ve made that correlation that, okay, you know the EA cost is a hundred percent but judging by what my total sales are before and after we did this, it’s worth it to me. So yeah, I would say, yeah, just pick your battles, pick what you, you know, track the more data you have, the better.
– It you’re, you’re a hundred percent, right? It’s all about where do you want to allocate that money? Do you want to, you can’t, you can’t have a $30 a day budget and run a ranking strategy while you’re testing 400 other targets at the same time. It’s, it’s not going to work. And yeah, I like exactly what you’re what you’re saying there on, on that. So if, now that the persons, they’re doing their ranking campaign and you talked about top of search, expand on more of that. When do you use the top of search and what kind of percentage are you putting on there?
– If, I’m not a fan of preemptively putting percentages. Now there’s times we do that, you know for certain strategy campaigns. And to be honest, like the special tactics are in my mind those are layering on that’s step two or three. That’s not step one, I definitely want to like find what are my core keywords and find my core bids for those what kind of works. And then if I have a campaign that’s like working really well these are my top keywords. I’m definitely a fan of segmenting things when at all possible, however I’m not a fan of moving things around. I prefer to keep them in their spot. If something’s working, don’t touch it. Don’t, you know, don’t try and move it to a campaign. I know ,I’ve heard this from sellers a lot where they’re like I have six different campaigns and these keywords are mixed in here. And it’s like, we want everything to be clean. And I would love to get into, you know one of my accounts and have everything beautiful on line up but all my top keywords are here but sometimes you have a top keyword that’s in a spot and it just works and you try and move it and everything goes to crap and know that’s normal. That happens so if you can just leave it where it is and just work with what’s there, you know, I definitely prefer that. But yeah, so I would say top of search, we play with it when we feel like there’s something that we want to give the push. we’ve run those campaigns before, you know like kind of like exact match, lower bids with really high top of search, to be honest, it’s one of those tactics where sometimes it works phenomenally and sometimes it doesn’t, or sometimes it started working and all of a sudden it stops working because you’re relying on Amazon to boost you with that top of search to really show you. So it’s, again, it’s not the magic bullet to get you to top, you know, top of page one when you’re only spending like a 20 cent bid, but you’ve put that modifier on there. You’re not always going to show up in that placement. So I prefer, you know, give your bids a better push if you really want to go for ranking.
– Yup and now I’ve got a big question to piggyback off that. I hear this all the time, you run a ranking campaign or just whatever you’re doing advertising in general. And now your products on page one, at the top it’s, you know in the organic spot, do you stop? Do you double down, what do you do at that point when you’re already ranking organically? And how do you convince somebody if you are going to keep running, how do you convince them to keep running ads when their products are already there in the first place.
– As you started setting those questions? I’m like, I know where this is going because I get this one all the time. I think it depends and I think it kind of goes back to when I was talking about like there’s no secret source for ranking, you know, high bids, exact match. I would say, track your keywords. You know, I wouldn’t turn it off. And it also depends on, I would say it also depends on how competitive your category is and how many people are moving into your space daily. Because if you just absolutely pause everything and then you get caught with your pants down because somebody else moved in and they’re willing to pay $5 to get top of search and willing to spend that money initially to gain that traction, you’re left playing catch up. I’ve seen it happen where you’re, everything’s going, okay. Maybe the A cost is a little bit high, but you’re holding that top of search placement. And then you, you know, someone freaks out about how much you know, how the A cost is and they just make drastic cuts. And then when they realize, oh no, my rankings are slipping. And then they trying, you know, shove that to the top again, the metrics just to like, I’ve seen that happen so many times where like I was at a 30% and now we’re at a 60. Like, and I’m like, it’s the same bids. It’s the same keyword, it’s the same campaign. Something is just not working as well. So there’s those weird nuances to the platform. You kind of just have to, you know, work with what’s there. I wish I could tell you exactly why dropping and then spring boarding back didn’t work. I just know I’ve seen it happen enough that I get very weary of drastically just shutting it down. Sometimes there’s times we need to do that. You know, if your inventory is blowing out I don’t want us to keep running aggressive advertising. That’s the worrying your margins. You know, there’s a time and a place for everything. But, I would say lower it slowly a track. So maybe if you’re running right now, you’re saying all right, for this campaign, it’s a 50% of your costs. I’m not really happy with the 50%. Okay, well, let’s target a 45 or less target of 40. Let’s see if we can get there whatever rankings maintain when we’re hitting that A cost target. Do we need to drop it down to a 30 or maybe our rankings slips, so then we can push it back up a little bit instead of just spring boarding it. And then being, I’m not saying it’s going to happen that you’re going to see that absolute drop in like conversions and you know, what you’re getting for impressions and things, or that, you know you can’t get back there with the same bid but I’ve seen it happen the other way enough that I get a little bit weary of doing things like that.
– Okay, so we got Amazon Prime Day coming up. We’re tickets, we’re doing this in the middle of May. Those rumors Prime Day is going to be like June. Last couple of years, it’s been well last year was a weird year anyway, but it’s usually been in July. So we get, we want to start figuring out for prime. What do we do? What’s a good strategy? What’s some, what are some strategies that you will implement for Prime Day coming up for your for your clients and for these campaigns? Are you doing new campaigns, best strategies, what’s that look like?
– Yeah, I’m so not a fan of brand new campaigns. If you have something you want to test or you want to run right now, I would say get those campaigns up now. The more history you can get on those, like don’t launch them right before Prime Day to be honest, it could work but it might not work in your cost per clicks could be high but because you have absolutely no data on that there’s no way you’re going to be able to fully buy that. The other thing I would say is in the past, you know you have those, I’ve seen those campaign drops where it’s like prime videos, or, you know it’s every single word that they found that includes were prime or Prime Day in it. I haven’t seen those work very well. You’re welcome to run one, but I would say run it at a lower budget in the lower bid. And don’t be surprised if you get absolute no impressions on it. So those types of campaigns, you know maybe it’s worth it to have it there, honestly, we’re at the point where we don’t even bother with those anymore. Oh, if a client asks for it, we’ll run it. But most times I just, I’ve seen those get like no impressions, even with decent bids. And so, you know, but if you have to push the bids so high to get any impressions and then oftentimes the numbers on those are just really not favorable. And you just kind of wasted the ad spend where you could have taken that and brought it towards something that is working. I would just say double down on like, what your top campaigns already are. Oftentimes, you know, because if you can’t really go after so much like holiday and all this kind of thing then you really just want to start allocating and dig down into like what your product is. I would look into running a lot of product targeting because you’re going to have those sellers who are willing to pay that. So anyone who’s relevant for you anyone who can work, you know, just kind of blanket those with the product targeting that you can, again you can set those a lower bids. The other thing to note is on Prime Day a lot of people just blow their budgets out of water. Some of them you know, are okay with just increasing and then some people just don’t increase. You will see a lot of sellers that their budgets have completely blow out. And if you can have a couple low bid things running oftentimes you can get some really good returns on those. I would say, also dig into display product targeting. That’s going to be a great one. We are playing around with the new sponsor, display audiences. Those are kind of interesting. It’s remains to be seen how well those are gonna work on Prime Day. However, those will be like piggybacking you could piggybacking off of like past sales and stuff. So those might be interesting to run after Prime Day. And that’s just me thinking about it. I don’t know if that’s a good strategy or not. But yeah, so I would just say, dig down into what’s working and you can look at playing with top of search placements here. So one thing we’ll do is right before we will comb through everything in an account, you know anything that has really poor conversions or it’s not working as well. You want to make sure your bids are really tightened up. You have your best bids on, you know things that you do know work really well for your products. And then if you have a certain campaign that does like say really well, top of search or conversion rates are much better, maybe boost it. You don’t necessarily have to even go a hundred percent 20%, 40% something, you know, just to give it that. And then I would say, monitor your ads the day of an check for a budget outages. And then you’re going to have to make a call somewhat blind because you know, if a budget runs out you’re not getting real time data except for the spend. So that’s one again, if you have enough performance data just to take a look. So on average, this campaign runs well below my targets. Everything looks good, then I would, you know, increase that, now you can try increasing for top keywords, you know, again, going with, you know, what works best for your product. The other thing is, I like to base everything on performance as much as possible. So if we have a campaign let’s say you had a little busy, oh, this, you know this keyword forms like amazing conversion rates at like a 50 cent bid, then, hey let’s jump into a dollar that might work, that might not work. If I’m going to try really increasing something like that. I much prefer to do it, you know do that testing beforehand. I don’t like testing on high volume days like Prime Day.
– Yeah, no doubt too many, too many browsers during that time people just clicking around.
– Yes, don’t raise the day before or the week before and expect absolutely crap numbers the week before.
– Interesting, good stuff. Now you touched on product targeting in here as as part of your strategy in general, how, what is your tactics with product targeting? Are you setting those up in separate campaigns? How are you determining, are you just going after ones that you have competitive advantage over? What is your strategy around product targeting?
– Yeah, and it definitely depends on what where the clients A cost targeting or tolerances is. And it would depend on how much budgets we have and like how aggressive we’re being definitely search reports are going to be like the best way to find those ASINs again you know what worked, we know you convert it, run it take those in the sponsored products. You know, you, we know what worked it’s running in a sponsor display ad. So you can definitely build off of it that way. And that’s going to be like your best, your core kind of like what you already know worked and then work off of that. If we are being like super aggressive on a specific keyword, you can, you know, go into Amazon. Look, I, you know, if I’m targeting again, metal cup I know I want to really double it on this keyword. I can go to Amazon, I could scrape everyone off that page and retarget those your returns on that, maybe okay, maybe not. It’s gonna depend on, you know what your price point is in relation to the market. It depends on what you were star rating is in relation to the market. You know how well you can compete on those pages. If you just want to show up everywhere that’s a great way to do it. But again, you know, kind of understand it goes in layers. So search report you’re probably going to get the most return. You can do that manually, so for instance, if I want to make sure I’m only targeting everybody with a lower star rating than me or I have a lower price point than me, definitely. You know, you can do that and then as far as like segmenting things, I’m definitely a fan of segmenting. So in our accounts, we run a lot of campaigns. You’re going to just see a high number of campaigns because I see campaigns as a way to like group keywords in a way that we can understand what’s contained within the keyword, for instance, like ASINs. It’s like, okay, where did, where did I get these? If I dump all the ASINs that are like lower price point lower star rating and all the ones that are located on my top keyword altogether, you’re gonna have some really poor numbers on probably some of those. And then you’re going to have some really amazing numbers on the other ones. And you’re not really gonna understand, okay, was this here? Where did I get it? So if I want to scrape everything, I want to put those into its own campaign and say, you know, these are ranked on whatever keyword, definitely like. So when I take a look at that campaign, say, oh A costs is a bit higher than I want it to be. That’s kind of expected because I know where those came from and I kind of know how that’s gonna play out.
– Really good and then, so I want to touch on two more quick things really fast before we before we let you go, I know we’re running up against some time here, but two things. When would you start bidding on the brand name? What would you sort of start doing some sort of defensive brand offensive type campaigns and then we’ll touch on sponsored brand video. Cause that’s really big but let’s start with at what point. So I’m a new client, I come in, I’ve got my brand new product brand, new brand right out of the gate and my advertising, my brand name. Or am I waiting for some sort of traction before I do that?
– You can do it right out of the gate you probably won’t get any impressions. The one caveat to that would be if your brand name is something that might be related to another search that has a lot of high search volume but you’re not relevant to that particular search. I would be careful with that, it would make sure, you know you wouldn’t go for a long tail or just do exact, you know be careful with that in a broad match. That would be like, you know just be aware if you see it pop off and you’re like, oh my goodness, nobody knows my brand. Are they searching? And then you go look at the search report for it, you’re like, oh, okay. I didn’t mean to show up there. So just know that that can happen sometimes with certain brands. So just kind of understand that it can be an interesting way, like if you start out of the gate, it can be an interesting way to see people discovering your brand. Another way you might think about that. If your budget’s a little bit tight, as you could wait until those searches show up in your search term report because eventually you will see that and then you’ll know exactly what they’re searching. So that could maybe be an interesting signal that you are getting some searches and then, you know cause the auto will show you out there and things like that because it gets the correlation. So you can wait until they show up. The other thing would be if you have a larger catalog and you have some cross-promotion capabilities that’s another one that people say is kind of branded but it’s not particularly branded. So I would definitely to dig into cross promotion using sponsored product ads. And you can also do that with the sponsored display ads. So, and the sponsor display is kind of interesting because if you take the time to build them out and you can build like taglines. So if you’re, if you’re running like really tight campaigns, again, it’s like more manual. You gotta like figure out the funnel in your head but you could like run underneath say more from X Y Z brand or discover more from our, you can kind of test those kinds of things which is an interesting way to go about it.
– And then lastly, sponsored brand video. When are you incorporating those? How effective are those and what, what sort of strategies are you using around sponsored brand video?
– Yeah, so sponsored brand video. We run them as soon as we have the creative so we don’t develop the creatives in house, but if you have the creative and you can run it and that’s the hardest part is getting the creative. So if you have, if you have the option run it and definitely go run it. I have to go check, I didn’t get it checked before this call. So I don’t know if it’s on there. I saw a screenshot in a Facebook group, mom my other account manager sent to me someone said that there ,you’re able to target Easons in sponsored brands video now . I don’t know, I’ll have to check that but I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens, but yeah. So if you have the creatives definitely run it. We’re definitely looking at running them on our top keywords, if you’re running brand defense, you know definitely make sure you’re getting that ad spot because your competitor will show up there. And you know, with, you know the really good enticing videos as creatives we’re seeing a lot higher cost per clicks a lot higher conversions on these ad types. So, you know, if someone else was going to snag your into traffic with their video. They’re probably going to have a lot better results than if they just went after what the sponsored product. So I would definitely be guarding those spots for sure. Looking at top keywords, one thing we’ve said, oh, the other caveat to this is I wouldn’t mess with broad match. You know, sponsored brand, the way broad match works in sponsored brand is completely different than sponsored product ads. In a sponsored product ad, if you want a broad match, every single one of those individual words has to show up within the search term sponsored brand. It doesn’t , it, in some ways functions like an auto, which is super annoying. You can be under playing whack-a-mole with all the really irrelevant search terms. So I would, you know, if you see poor metrics on broad match in a sponsored brand video and headline most likely that’s what it is. You’d probably go check your search in reports and find a whole lot of junk. Terrific, the other thing that’s kind of interesting that I heard from another account manager and I thought it was really smart is if you have a, so for sponsor products if you have a certain search that oftentimes people when they build out their brands they have like a different variations of a specific product and they might share a lot of the keywords, in a sponsored product. You can basically dominate the page with, you know making sure you’re running all of it. However, with the sponsored video ad you only get one ad spot. So if you’re running a headline of course you can showcase all of that together. And that’s a wonderful way to do it. But one thing that is probably good to think about when you’re just thinking about funnels and how you’re going to build these out is if you have two separate listings that can share it make sure you’re putting like your best foot forward. You oftentimes you’ll have like a breakout for ASINs or listening, one that works better. Make sure that’s the one that’s showing up. And then the other thing is you can own currently you can only advertise one of the variations you can’t, so make sure whatever variation is showing up is the one that works. You know, this group may have the best conversion rate. Again, caveat, you know, if you have a red cup make sure you’re serving up the right variation, if you dig into that.
– That’s great stuff and, and we could talk about this for hours and hours. We didn’t really even scratch the surface of all the different things with advertising but it’s great to have these conversations and see what you what you’re doing. Because like you said, there is no, it’s not one size fits all with advertising.
– Its good to know and be willing to test. That’s why I bring on experts like yourself to help your business is critical. If this is not something you want to dive into and spend all day testing your ads, you definitely need help in this area. And we have to have you back on periodically.
– This was fun
– We could just go on and on and on and talk about so much so much with this and that the ever landscape as well. But before we go tell everybody how they can get in contact with you, how they can get connected with Junglr, you got, you got.
– Yeah awesome, so the best place to find us via our website, probably Junglr, J-U-N-G-L-R.com. There is an intake form at the bottom of that. I’m still like personally going over those. So you should be getting contact with me. The one thing I will say caveat is so we do have available space to take brands. We’re being a little bit more selective because we realized that we want to grow quickly, but we also want to make sure we’re servicing our clients well. So if you are maybe a larger brand, you’re interested in leveraging us, but probably be alright to hire us. If you’re a much smaller brand, you know is out there for that. You know, I’m happy to offer advice whenever possible. We do have a YouTube channel where I delve into more technical stuff. So there’s something that we didn’t even touch on called bulk files, which we use a lot in our agency. And I think there are wonderful tools to manage things at scale, even for very large accounts but they are very technical. So if you ever want to learn about that I’ve dug into that more and addressed a lot of, we have a lot of videos on the YouTube channel about that.
– Excellent, well, I encourage everyone to check you out get in contact with you. We’ll definitely have you back on.
– Yeah that will be fun.
– Absolutely and for everyone out there listening if you like content like this if you like to hear people on the Amazon ad space talking strategies and everything else inside the Amazon space that we talk about daily on this podcast, make sure that you’re following us. We go live on Facebook, so go to the Sellozo Facebook page subscribe to it, like it, turn on a notifications same thing with this the Sellozo channel on YouTube. We go live there as well and of course our podcasts come out every day on whatever platform you listen to your podcasts, so subscribe to those, give us a little review let us know how we’re doing. To comment anytime we go live we always have great people like Elizabeth. And if you do have your strategy designed for your advertising and you’d like just to automate it reach out to go Sellozo, go to Sellozo.com. You can book a demo with Kris or myself, and we can talk about how we can auto automate the strategy you’re running. And again, Elizabeth, thanks so much for being on here with us, it’s been a blast and we will be back at this everybody tomorrow, have a great day, see ya.